derick Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 The Labour/Liberal Party have reached a new and truly contemptible low by stating they will vote down the Alcohol Bill in the Scottish Parliament. Agree or disagree? My view is that the leaderships, if that's not too strong a word, Labour/Liberal Party are playing the worst possible sort of petty politics with this issue and with the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, purely out of spite and lingering sour grapes at losing their Ministerial Cars in 2007. Just when you think they can't sink any lower: they do. Shame on them. Lab/Lib could have sought to amend and improve in committee before they The doctors are for it. The cops are for it. The international evidence is for it. Anybody with an ounce of common sense is for it. The Tory opposition to this policy is no surprise, as their ideology is for the strong to survive and the weak to go to hell in a handcart The drink pushers are against it. What a surprise. I have no idea what the Greens and Socialists think about it. Are there any individual Labour and Liberal MSPs with an ounce of backbone and morality out there, who will vote with the Government? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjool Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 well that's not a loaded poll or anything ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 I do not support the Scottish Parliament's moves to set a minimum price for alcohol but Yes, I would like to see fewer lives ruined and fewer lives lost to drink. Just not convinced that a minimum price is the way to do it. Well without making the minimum price so high that nobody (other than MSPs) can afford to drink. In fact I envisage an increase in crime as alcoholics and other hardened drinkers find ways to finance their habit, an increase in drug use if taking drugs becomes cheaper than drinking and the development of awaydays to England or Ireland for cheaper drink. Yes it is easy just to say I do not support the plan without offering alternatives but I am prepared to put forward my own idea. Offer help to anyone with a drink problem to include in patient care in a specialist clinic where needed as the carrot while perhaps having some sort of ASBO banning problem drinkers from buying any alcohol (or specific drinks) as the stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derick Posted November 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Just not convinced that a minimum price is the way to do it. Well without making the minimum price so high that nobody (other than MSPs) can afford to drink. That's not what the medical profession or the cops think though. Yes it is easy just to say I do not support the plan without offering alternatives but I am prepared to put forward my own idea. Offer help to anyone with a drink problem to include in patient care in a specialist clinic where needed as the carrot while perhaps having some sort of ASBO banning problem drinkers from buying any alcohol (or specific drinks) as the stick. That's where I have a problem with the Labour/Liberal (for they are one and the same) Party - they aren't even prepared to discuss it properly in Parliament, and as usual don't have a coherent alternative. The SNP are for it, so they're against it. end of. As a policy it's not so much intended to help problem drinkers now, but to set a signal that things need to change, and start to work on changing the culture. A bit like the was done with fags 20-30 years ago, or drink driving. My view is that is how public policy works, by changing mindsets over the long term, not by just being passed and then implemented top-down on 'day one'. What do you mean a biased poll? how dare you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nederlander Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Interestingly it's currently five to one in favour of blooteration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judgeknott Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Whilst I tend agree that alcoholic drink is probably too cheap it is a tricky one. But then I don't drink a lot. Several years ago at one of our utter isles I was asked witness to a stop/search by a single revenue officer. the culprit when challenged admitted to possessing LSD. When asked why he was taking it he said that for the length of effect etc. it was cheaper per kick than alcohol. Now if that is true today then I guess it poses questions and other arguments. If the price of drink goes up in Scotland only, then people will simply have it shipped or smuggled from elsewhere and perhaps create a black-market which might support crime. Putting the price up is no substitute for education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFusion Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Putting the price up is no substitute for education. dito! it's a bit like prohibition really isn't it, trying to price it out of peoples reach rather than making it illlegal tho, or is that the next step? and that really worked..... I also agree with fjool, how comes the poll is so one sided?you're either for it or for people to be "blootered" all the time?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styles Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Its the minority ruining it for the majority again. I am totally against it. If I was an alcoholic no cost would put me off and if I could not afford it I would steal, rob ect to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 I do not think they should. Why interfere with the market? Alcohol is low prices because - guess what - consumers buy it! This will only serve to hit the poorer in society. Alcoholism is an addiction and just like any drug addication, increased prices won't stop people obtaining it. Why should I be charged more for something I haven't done? I'd rather the government educated kids more on the topic and stayed out of my shopping cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Looking at this from the perspective of someone staying in Norway, higher prices will have absolutely no effect whatsoever.In Norway a cheap bottle of wine is equivalent to £10, a bottle of spirits is about £30.00, and there are more problems caused by alcohol than in any part of Britain.Although, on the plus side, Norway is beginning to relax their starched knickers attitude towards alcohol a little bit, and there are signs that things are getting better. Although they still haven't figured out how to stop Norskies wanting to fight when they get even a sniff of booze. BTW. IMHO, the Poll questions are very loaded against having a snifter. Made me wonder if the OP was a member of the Norwegian Christian Party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Handy Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 It would seem that some on Shetlink are getting really (pissed) off about this subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 I'm sure you can take it on the gin, Para. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinner72 Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 well that's not a loaded poll or anything ... My thoughts exactly! I'm kinda torn on this subject. I can see the logic in "eliminating" cheap tasteless drinks which are obviously just created to take advantage of those with little money and a drink problem (£1 bottles of cider and wine etc), however I am also pretty sure those people don't make up as much of the problem as we perhaps think. My personal experience tend towards the more well off as being the troublemakers when drunk, and having to spend an extra few quid isn't going to make any difference there. Stiffer, rigid, sentences for drunken misdemeanors may be a better way forward.. (we have plenty of education before the fact, but precious little punishment should that education be ignored) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derick Posted November 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Yeah, Ok the poll was a bit black and white. I was angry at the utter stupidity of the opposition. mea culpa. It's not about 'pricing it out of people's reach', or prohibition (wun is not exactly a tee-totaller either). The 'market' is heavily interfered with anyway (not least by the £2billion+ a year it costs to clear up the booze induced mess), this would be a tweak to make the cheapest of the cheap booze less cheap. It's about setting a signal and trying to change the culture. It would be interesting to look back at the early days of campaigns against smoking and see the comments for and against. Suspect they would bear a similarity. Maybe the families of alcholics should start sueing the drink industry, like the smokers did. And again, minimum pricing is what the doctors advised would work. Norway might have a few fighting drunks, but what of the overall health statistics there compared to Scotland? - which certainly has the worst health statistics in Europe! Something has got to change. Anyway, I'm off to the pub in 31min to a leaving do. And driving, but not over the limit which so cruelly restricts my God Given freedom to mow people down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISOT Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 I watched the report on the news last night about this and they were saying a bottle of vodka would go up by around 93p if this law were to come in! Wow 93p, what good do they think that will do? If they think price is going to deter drinkers, wether it be alcholics underagers or just your normal Joe Bloggs would they not be better putting the pice off spirits up £20 or £30 a bottle!!!! Just my thought on this one. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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