sjeunson Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 as it is already travelling at speed the acceleration would be minimal Could you explain to me what you're understanding of acceleration is? I fear we have wildly differing ideas here..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 the increase in speed, what is your understanding of acceleration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjeunson Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 the increase in speed, what is your understanding of acceleration? Acceleration is the rate of change of velocity. Which means that acceleration occurs when the boat rolls, pitches, heaves on a wave, slows slightly on hitting a wave etc. These accelerations can be quite large which leads to seasickness and the rate of change of acceleration (jerk) leads to loss of balance by people onboard if I remember rightly. On a big swell a cat can operate at a reduced speed. The north sea however usually consists of a wave far steeper in profile and wouldn't be as suitable. Cats would work some of the time but not as realiably or as comfortably in rough weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 definately a better definition sj.but I'm braally sure the pitch of waves in the pentland firth are quite steep too.But I'm not a marine Engineer my thoughts are based purely on experience and sea cats seem to work fine in other parts of the world and certainly a lot better than the boats currently run by northlink. one thing I do know for sure is that cats are a hell of a lot more stable in a beam sea than a monohull so the acceleration on the roll would be less for a cat, and for vessels of similar length the pitch would be similar.now surely a vessel running at reduced speed in bad weather is better than one not running at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarotangel Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Peronsally I'm a bit suspicious about all this. Ok yes, it's quiter in Winter but this is supposed to be a lifeline service. My main worry is if an emergency happened and needed to get to the mainland quick as MJ said only option then would be FlyBe. I know that it is quieter in winter but how many trips do they actually only have 8 people on board? I've asked my family & friends about this and they said although it wasn't packed it wasn't a ghost ship when they've travelled in the winter months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infiltrator Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 having been on boats on a fine day in Hawaii I can assure you that the sea state there is a hell of a lot coorser than it is here but they still manage to run a cat service, seeing how you say it can't be done then they must use some kind of magical cat. otherwise it just wouldn't work now would it. Found this from Calmac, in their experience monohulls can still operate in rough conditions when the catamarans have been confined to port by MCA restrictions. http://www.scribd.com/doc/5737353/Calmac-catamarans-and-rough-seas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 maybe they mean 8 people paying for cabins. usually more than 8 sleeping in the bar. Take it those 12 passengers will be cabin passengers. Are freight boats suitable for children? How about disabled cabins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I'd like to see the detail of what they are proposing. It is certainly worth a closer look. There's no doubt in my mind that there would be better cabin availability if the Orkney passengers were taken out of the equation. I'm not sure I can see it working with just a lerwick/kirkwall daytrip though, I would think there has to be an Aberdeen/Kirkwall daytrip to match. If there is a freight boat sailing on the non-passenger boat days, the inconvenience could well be worth the gain, especially if the new larger freight boat came into play with extra passenger capacity. I'm not sure I can understand the logic behind why Northlink didn't see it worthwhile to add extra cabin capacity as they would not be able to re-coup the costs over the remaining term of their contract. Surely this work should have been paid for by the Vessel owners and recouped over the expected life of the boats, not the remainder of the current contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Infiltrator this is the same northlink that found the current boats suitable for the route, I would take anything northlink says with a large pinch of salt.This new proposals from Northlink seem to be targeted at the tourists and making their life easier not at the locals who are having to travel outside the holiday season. just as pre selling cabins to bus companies so some pensioner from Kent or Karentine can get a cabin on the one and only time they will ever use the boat while a local trying to lie down in the midship bar on the only available flat surface gets hassled by bar staff for making said bar look untidy in case any precious tourist decides to venture out of their single occupancy four berth cabin is wrong. When P&O ran the route it was a very rare occassion that you couldnt get a bed to sleep in or the boat didn't sail.Northlink blame regulations stating all cabins have to be above the water line, and the weather is somehow rougher now.So why then did they waste space above the water line on a second bar?Why are crew occupying cabins supposed to be for passengers?Why did they build boats with a draft at the very limits of aberdeen harbours operation?Having used calmac I had very little faith in Northlink at the start and it is non existant now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infiltrator Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 ^Sheepshagger, I wasn't defending NL, I was just trying trying to add to the debate about the suitability of catamarans on the north run by posting some info which, on the face of it, is based on quite valid experience.If you don't believe what NL stated in their document why not ask the MCA, after all, it seems it's their restrictions that keep the catamarans tied up when the monohulls still operate. I don't think the current vessels are well suited to the route but I'd need some serious convincing that catamarans were the answer. That said, I do think NL's policy of cancelling sailings in heavy weather is a sensible approach, both from the vessel design and passenger comfort/safety perspective. I also think that sailings every night through the winter months is a luxury that the route can't support - strange that their proposal is very similar to the one that served P&O well for many years. Maybe they've finally twigged that they can't lure the extra 150,000 tourists/year onto the route that they'd originally forecasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unlinkedstudent Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Help! Just phoned up Northlink Ferries and have been told to call back at 8.00am and they'll try to "jiggle things around to fit you in" Some of you are aware that I'm due to be moving up to Shetland this week and wouldn't you know it, there's no blooming space on the ferry. Ahhh come on now Northlink, we only hiring a transit van, 2 dogs, 2 blokes and 1 female (well yes, I have put on weight but I don't take up THAT much room). I note that one of the freight boats has gone out of service for maintenance - is that why there is no space or is it all the tourists? Someone reassure me - can they usually jiggle things around to fit peeps/vans onboard? HELP! I've even made sure my passport is to hand ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 have you tried the driving to Orkney option?yep it's a problem at this time of year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willz320 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 As far as I know, the whole weekend has been fully booked for cars for some time now, its a very busy time with a lot of locals and tourists travelling. You have a good chance of getting onboard when its full if: 1.you call in the morning and check for space with the freight department. this is because they can check for cancellations 2.you can go for 'stand-by' at the port. this opens in aberdeen tomorrow at 5pm. if you are the first person to go on stand-by, you will be first in the list to get onboard if there is any space available. if you are no.1 on the list, you have a really high chance of getting onboard. hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unlinkedstudent Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 I phoned them up last week and there was ample room then. We couldn't actually book it there and then as was waiting for settlement date to be confirmed/property purchase actually to go through okay. We're trying to get on the Friday night ferry or Thursday. I'm wondering if it is because it is a van and they need to check with the Freight Dept who aren't there on a Sunday. Would be a bit difficult to go standby, especially with 2 dogs in tow as it is a tad long journey from London to Shetland. Thanks for the help though peeps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyScy Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 I've been on all day trying tae book a cabin for 3 weeks time to head south away to see AC/DC. Using my islander ID card it will not let me book a cabin, an error message continues to come up and stops me proceeding to the checkout. But I can book on as a foot passenger no problem.So, out of interest I tried making a cabin booking without using my islander ID and no problem at all I was put straight through to payment details. Bearing in mind this is the sunday night after the Johnsmas Foy it leads me to wonder if cabins are held for non discount passengers? Is this common practice in the summer months??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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