klanky Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Instead of critisising me, why not come forward with some suggestions like I asked for?!. Odd. really. I asked you for your suggestions about promoting Shetland without mentioning Norway, Faroes or Denmark on the 'Bagpipe'thread...... ....no reply as yet (whistles and wanders of with hands in pockets) OK. Suggestions. Devolve Shetland to the same level as Scotland currently is from England. All the benefits of near autonomy but without the ridiculous notion of becoming a North Atlantic banana republic. And still part of a bigger 'gang'. Plus no requirement to alienate ourselves from the UK by aligning ourselves with an uninterested new overlord (who doesn't even speak the same language as us) whilst seeing a massive hike in living expenses and the subsequent alienation from the UK as no sausage there will be willing to travel to Shetland and pay Norwegian prices. So you can kiss any trade to the UK goodbye straight away. So you can kiss the ferries to UK goodbye as well. Remind me again, just how many Norwegians live in Shetland..and how many live here from the UK? Guess who's going to get hurt the most? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Farkoff Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Kavi Ugl wrote: "I hear nothing about what you're going to do to keep Shetland alive.... " Well, I'm doing plenty. What is it exactly that you would like us all to be doing? Bagpipe patrol, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owre-weel Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 The other half holds true that many Shetlanders privately hate what's happening/happened to Shetland but understand, as I'm finding, that it's more than your life is worth to come out and say it. You can argue about how "British" or whatever Shetland is until the cows come home but the simple fact is we have a choice to make - stay where/as we are and die or change and survive.... I've always argued that everyone is entitled to thier opinion on this site and that people should put thier views forward in an respectful way. I do agree that too many are waiting to shoot down those who express an opinion. !! I do not hold with this idea that many Shetlanders privately hate whats happening to Shetland, but just stand by and do nothing due to fear of being seen to speak out. I do however believe that many Shetlanders will pick thier fights carefully and understand that Mr Hills approach will do little to help the cause and they do not wish to be any part of it. You clearly notice that many have responded to your posts on this subject and could I suggest that its not due to the subject matter of whom or where we should belong, but the level of doom and gloom you are portraying and the choice of language (eg shetland will die), which is causing such a strong reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavi Ugl Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 @ Klanky, I didn't reply to your question because as I stated I had said my final word in that thread. It could equally be asked "could Shetland please be promoted without mentioning Scotland"?!. Que tumbleweed!. I'm not saying this in an offensive way at all, but I get the impression that as an incomer you don't like to see Shetland as a seperate place, whereas I do. So, okay, I'll try to answer your question here. Shetland doesn't have to be promoted using a continual reference to Norway or even Scotland. On the one hand, I think it would be to Shetland's benefit if it was preserved and promoted in it's own unique way. A prime example are the tourist signs where the Scottish thistle emblem was used. Why?. This was a perfect opportunity to use an emblem which was both more in keeping with Shetland and which helped preserve/promote our own distinctive identity. Such an emblem doesn't have to be either Scandinavian or Scottish - it could just have been something in keeping with Shetland. On the other hand, the truth is, it's a bit silly to set aside any of the countries which have had a bearing on Shetland and as I have mentioned before the Dutch connection is sorely neglected. My fear(whether justified or not) is that kilts(marriages), bagpipes(blaring at the end of Victoria Pier)) and thistle emblems(the length and breadth of Shetland) will become the dominant Scottish identity of Shetland and that would be a travesty..... Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree!. Baron Farkoff, if only...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Farkoff Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 "if only..." Aw, shucks. I mean I'm flattered an' all- but I'm in a relationship right now, but may reconsider if we can have bagpipes at the kirk. It's ok to dream, though, darling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icepick239 Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 "if only..." Aw, shucks. I mean I'm flattered an' all- but I'm in a relationship right now, but may reconsider if we can have bagpipes at the kirk. It's ok to dream, though, darling. Be careful of Kavi Ugl...One of her eyes looks just like your head..You got any missing siblings Baron?Storge Norske etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabiaTerra Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Ok, Kavi. Please explain how this Nordic paradise you've dreamed up will support itself when the Norwegian oil runs out? They've been pumping just as long as we have, they are just as dependant on the oil as we are. It isn't just the British sector which is running dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klanky Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 @ Klanky, I didn't reply to your question because as I stated I had said my final word in that thread. It could equally be asked "could Shetland please be promoted without mentioning Scotland"?!. Que tumbleweed!. I'm not saying this in an offensive way at all, but I get the impression that as an incomer you don't like to see Shetland as a seperate place, whereas I do. So, okay, I'll try to answer your question here. Shetland doesn't have to be promoted using a continual reference to Norway or even Scotland. On the one hand, I think it would be to Shetland's benefit if it was preserved and promoted in it's own unique way. A prime example are the tourist signs where the Scottish thistle emblem was used. Why?. This was a perfect opportunity to use an emblem which was both more in keeping with Shetland and which helped preserve/promote our own distinctive identity. Such an emblem doesn't have to be either Scandinavian or Scottish - it could just have been something in keeping with Shetland. On the other hand, the truth is, it's a bit silly to set aside any of the countries which have had a bearing on Shetland and as I have mentioned before the Dutch connection is sorely neglected. My fear(whether justified or not) is that kilts(marriages), bagpipes(blaring at the end of Victoria Pier)) and thistle emblems(the length and breadth of Shetland) will become the dominant Scottish identity of Shetland and that would be a travesty..... Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree!. Actually, I agree with everything you've said in this post Regarding how I 'see' Shetland - well, I want what is best for Shetland. I'm not of the opinion that Shetland should 'go it alone' or that forging some sort of permanent administrative bond to Norway would be in the best interest of Shetland in the long run. Nor do want Shetland to answer to Scotland/UK for the majority of decision making processes. I certainly see Shetland as having a separate identity - and long may it continue, but that's not the same as saying Shetland should be separatist.... [edit] I'm a Sooth Moother and proud of it. But that doesn't mean I have some sort of 'colonial' view of Shetland. It's entirely possible to live somewhere and support the country you live in 100% without actually having being born there. But that's for another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavi Ugl Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 @icepick & Baron Farkoff, erm, I was just refering to the suggestion of a Bagpipes Patrol i.e if only Good stuf Klanky, we'll just leave it at that then Arabia Tera, it's probably true that Norway, some day, will have to come to terms with the end of an oil industry but it seems to have so much else going for it too. Shipbuilding/designing/fitting out seems to be a massive industry as seen here: http://www.skipsfarts-forum.net/ And ok, the google translated version.... http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.skipsfarts-forum.net%2F I wouldn't profess to be an expert on every avenue of Norway's economy but some examples that come to mind are the shipbuilding as mentioned, fishing, logging, tourism(although seasonal it's massive), shipping itself(you will find many Norwegian ships engaged in contracts in the new oil frontiers around the world - see website). These are some of the main industries but I guess someone more knowledgeable would be able to give more examples/information. I was thinking last night in relation to the question of higher living costs of Norway and who is to say that it wouldn't be the same in an independant Scotland.....?. Indeed, what would an independant Scotland have going for it post oil?(that's a genuine question). The SNP's mantra is "Independance Within Europe" but as we all know there's no such thing. Look at what Europe is also doing to Scotland's fishing industry. So, will Scotland even have a fishing industry post oil if it remains tied to Europe?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klanky Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 ....... I was thinking last night in relation to the question of higher living costs of Norway and who is to say that it wouldn't be the same in an independant Scotland.....?. Indeed, what would an independant Scotland have going for it post oil?(that's a genuine question). The SNP's mantra is "Independance Within Europe" but as we all know there's no such thing. Look at what Europe is also doing to Scotland's fishing industry. So, will Scotland even have a fishing industry post oil if it remains tied to Europe?. A good point. Mr Salmond et al are always keen to vaunt the 'Independent' economy of Norway (they used to point to Ireland and Iceland as well but, rather oddly, they've gone a bit quiet about those two....). To me, it would not be workable for Scotland - she is joined at the hip to England whether she likes it or not. To end up with some bizarre situation where there are two separate economies both vying for trade in the Border regions would be rather entertaining...I have a vision of Spike Milligans' 'Puckoon' in my head.... If Scotland throws it's lot in with the EU, then it will be a junior player and outside the Oil industry it will have very little to offer in the way of revenue. And this is the problem I see for Shetland - a total upset by leaving the current system leading to an economic model that prices out trade with the UK or become an poor relative in the EU. Also, as an aside: If Scotland makes a big deal out of the oil revenue as a lever to gain Independence, they they know damn well that there's a chance that Shetland will try the same thing...and with probably more justification....and who's got all the new and prospective oil fields at the moment? Scotland wouldn't like that one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaflech Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 ^^^I don't think Scotland will be at all worried about the prospect of Shetland seeking independence. If it's taken all these centuries for even the glimmer of a chance that a country with a population of 5m can go it alone, there is little hope for a group of islands with 22,000 on it.For people talking about Scotland/Britain/EU being the slow death of Shetland, I can't help but think that wanting our own independence, based almost entirely on the oil industry, would simply quicken the process. It is very risky to base an economy on one specific income, especially in the case of oil. What's to say that in another 25 or so years technology will be such that the geographic advantage offered by Shetland at present will become a moot point and we will be bypassed altogether? SVT will by then be nearly 60 years old.I firmly believe that even with drastic changes in renewable energy etc, oil will almost certainly run out in this century. It would be a bit rich (pardon the pun) if our grandchildren had to go crawling back to Scotland/Britain in 2090, saying "well that's us used up everything and don't have a pot to pi$$ in, any chance you could let us back in again? K Thx" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 ^^ While I'd strongly question the wisdom of Shetland seeking total independence in any circumstances, an arrangement such as the I.O.M. Channel Isles or Faeroe have seems to me to be far more realistic and wise, I couldn't support any arrangement that did not include 200 miles/median exclusive rights to the sea. Oil/gas is a very handy asset that in the short, to possibly medium term, would provide positive cashflow to a newly devolved/whatever Shetland, that is all. If technology does not render us redundant, dry holes will. Its our other natural resource's, the ones that are either plentiful or replacable, that any devolution/whatever question should be decided upon. We're in an enviable geographical location, that could be very profitable to us, were it not for the fact we have to play by rules that take no advanatge of it, and are designed primarily for the good of people elsewhere with entirely different agandas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Article in Scotland on Sunday: End of the road for free Forvik? Includes a photo of Mr Hill in mid-capsize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest posiedon Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 It says under the photo Stuart Hall, typical Scotsman bad journalism, it also says.The Suffolk-born former metal worker was apprehended by officers in Lerwick, after parking his nine-year-old Mercedes van - which he describes as a "consular vehicle" - in one of the town's busiest streets.Wasn't he parked on JBs forecourt? The Scotsman/Scotland on Sunday are no better than the Sun, Daily mail et al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infiltrator Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 It says under the photo Stuart Hall, typical Scotsman bad journalism, it also says.The Suffolk-born former metal worker was apprehended by officers in Lerwick, after parking his nine-year-old Mercedes van - which he describes as a "consular vehicle" - in one of the town's busiest streets.Wasn't he parked on JBs forecourt? The Scotsman/Scotland on Sunday are no better than the Sun, Daily mail et al. Unless Stuart is claiming his consular vehicle travels through space and time like Dr Who's Tardis, I'd say there's a fair bet the van had to travel on 'one of the town's busiest roads' to get to JBs forecourt in the first place - given the current hacking headlines, it's hardly a case of major journalistic misreporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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