Why death rates INCREASED in 20mph zones

[Kavi Ugl]

I often think, drivers are too busy watching their speedometers to make sure they are keeping under 20mph just in case there is a Police radar trap hidden somewhere, rather than keeping their eyes peeled for children on the road.

 

Whether the politically correct brigade like it or not this is the simple truth.

 

I loathe the over-the-top and pointless road "safety measures" and road markings/signs that even the SIC are wasting money on.

 

What they should be doing in bringing in a by-law for mandatory dipped headlights during winter from when the clocks change.

 

Even now with the light fading already I just can't believe the number of drivers who drive around in the half-mirk with no lights on at all. They seem to be totally gormless to the aspect of being seen rather than seeing.

 

I woul suggest that you make an effort to read the full report by WS Atkins on the Portsmouth 'experiment' rather than react to newspaper headlines. You might then learn a little about road safety and not blithly knock the effort made by experienced professionals to reduce the casualty rates on our roads.

 

For the most part what they attempted in Portsmouth was doomed to failure but it would seem that a mostly political agenda once again won out over good sense!

 

The likely reason that casualty rates rose was not because drivers were paying more attention to their speeds. The very limited reductions in vehicle speeds measured by the investigators would back this up!

 

No, what is more likely is that pedestrians and cyclists 'felt safer' as they were in 20mph zones. Unfortunately they weren't any safer as the speeds hadn't reduced

 

Until, as Spinner suggests, the penalties for speeding - and for the collisions that all too often occur as a result - are made more stringent then won't really improve.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It's not necessarily speed that kills at all but bad driving or driving beyond you and your vehicle's limits.

 

It was the issue of drivers driving with no headlights on in the half-dark or poor conditions that was my first post on Shetlink about a year ago and one year on I'm shuddering afresh at the sheer thickness and lack of good driving sense that I see by hundreds of Shetland drivers.

 

Come on people, if you're reading this get your dipped headlights on and remember, if the day ever comes that you hit into me you won't be able to turn around and claim that you couldn't see me....

 

Me 1 you 0.....

[shetlandpeat]

I wonder what can be so important in your life you are happy to risk overtaking. The mark of an improved driver is one that had patience, not being a patient. If there was enough time and road to overtake someone at 60 when they are at 55 is ok, happens on the motorways all the time, but most of the roads in Shetland are not quite like that. So just sit behind and wait.

 

Car drivers will go out of their way to warn you of a speed trap and go out of their way not to help in an accident. That sorta describes folk today to a degree.

 

You have no right to endanger lives, or worry folk by wanting to overtake them dangerously, which could lead to endangering lives.

 

Once you are in that tin box you can change, you will not accept folk encroaching on what you think is rightfully yours, speed, road space or even parking. You don't do it when on foot, but then you are face to face, tis easy to stick fingers up at someone if they are traveling at speed away from you. Mainly folk are cowardly. There are many good folk on the road, but it only takes an odd reknaw or two to destroy a whole way of life

[Colin]

Why would you not feel that you would like to pass them? I know the speed limit is not a target, but it's quite frustrating sometimes when you're following somebody along a straight piece of road at 50-55mph when there's no reason not to be doing 60.

 

I think you missed the point.

 

Just because the maximum speed on a section of road is 60 doesn't mean that you HAVE to do 60.

 

Sometimes, a little patience..........

[EM]

In fact, I think Everyone should be made to spend the first 6 months of their driving career on a motorbike / moped- teach folk some road-sense / defensive-driving before they are let behind the wheel of a car!

Hardly likely to happen, but I agree that is an eminently sensible idea. I became much more competent at driving cars after riding motorbikes.

 

I'd also suggest that the bike learning begins in a big slestery field. I remember Bertie Mowat explaining that when he was in the Army during WWII he drove motorbikes. They were trucked to a field and spent a week just driving around the quagmire. He claimed the resulting skill and man/machine empathy could not be matched.

[tins]

I think you missed the point.

 

Just because the maximum speed on a section of road is 60 doesn't mean that you HAVE to do 60.

 

Sometimes, a little patience..........

I don't think i missed the point...

I know the speed limit is not a target

I was just pointing out that it can sometimes be a bit annoying, this is especially the case when they do inconsistent speeds e.g. 40 around the slightest bend.

[mhutch]

all i know is that when i was at primary school it was the hieght of the construction at sullom voe n we were in the thick of it, no enforced speed limit n trucks n busses goin all out on poorer roads n less street lights wi no verges, we walked home along the main road n often cycled, no refective coats, no helmets , no enforced speed limits, no fatalities, but by god we were left under no illusion that the cars would kill you if you were in front of them

[Ghostrider]

If somebody is doing 55mph in a 60mph zone, WHY would you want to pass them?

 

Why, because that very same driver is highly likely to have an obsession for staying in top gear and their foot at exactly the same place on the pedal, regardless what the road terrain is. In other words, when they hit a climb they'll drop back to 30-35mph and near stalling speed before they will finally concede defeat and change down.

 

Years ago I had a 125 bike, notwithstanding wind etc it would cruise happily at 55-60 mph (the engine wasn't the greatest and I'm no lightweight). Actual example, I remember coming through the boddam of Quarff heading for the toon and I caught up with one of these "50-55mph heroes". There wasn't enough road for me to take him before the north brae (you needed anything up to 1/2 mile to get wound up, get past and be a safe distance ahead on the flat with only 5-10mph over him to play with), so I was stuck behind his bumper. As soon as he hit the brae in top and low revs he fell back to little over 40, I had to cut my revs and gear back, had he not been in my way I could have come out the top of the brae at around the 40 mark. With him neither gearing down or giving more gas he made it round the top at barely 30, by which time I'd had to gear back to first or second to get the torque from a 125 capable of hauling at such a low speed. Of course, he with a bigger engine and already in top hauled away faster once out the top than I could, I had to work my way up through all the gears again and only caught him up again around the Brindister Loch, by which time of course there wasn't really enough road, even if it had been clear, to take him before the blind bend and the south end of Gulberwick.

 

Point being, he caused me extra work, extra fuel, extra wear and tear, that had he been keeping a steady 60 on the flat I'd never have seen him, he'd have keep out ahead in lieu of what I lost on the braes, and had he settled back in to the 45-50 bracket, I could had had him through the boddam of Quarff, end of.

 

The 55 mph merchants are a major nusiance for anyone driving any vehicle which is only powerful enough to cruise comfortably in the 55-60 range. Its got nothing with wanting to seize that possible extra few mph, its got everything to do with not having to have to continually work your gearbox and throttle on every brae and every corner. The guy ahead chooses to drive at 55 and to let his speed drop to whatever in braes and corners, so can plan ahead.You following have to react to his speed, and with a low powered engine that leaves you no choice to be in lower gears and be running on higher revs than him, so as you maintain hauling power.

[Njugle]

The 55 mph merchants are a major nusiance .

 

So, you are calling all truck drivers a nuisance, despite all the extra gear changes, work and wear and tear they go through, all day, everyday?

 

[paulb]

sorry ghost but the 60 is the max, i see nothing wrong with 50-55. shall we talk about bikers and there speed.

[beachcaster]

^

 

Tarring everyone with the same brush Paul?

 

Not all bikers break the speed limit so it is a bit unfair to pigeonhole them all as mad speed freaks.

[paulb]

true but tarring drivers that keep within the limit as

The 55 mph merchants are a major nusiance

sorry but the worst speeders that have zoomed by me doing 50-60 have been bikers. yes its unfair to class all bikers into a group.

but to have a dig at someone who drove poorly but within the law because they would not drive at the limit to allow the following biker to keep his speed up is wrong also. i hate fols tailgating and will always let faster cars by on the single track roads. another dig is can folks please dip there lights when pasing others it gets annoying being blinded a dozen times a night.

[mhutch]

i mind having a major set to about this afore , and its hardly worth it , somes in a hurry n somes no surely

[Ghostrider]

true but tarring drivers that keep within the limit as

The 55 mph merchants are a major nusiance

sorry but the worst speeders that have zoomed by me doing 50-60 have been bikers. yes its unfair to class all bikers into a group.

but to have a dig at someone who drove poorly but within the law because they would not drive at the limit to allow the following biker to keep his speed up is wrong also. i hate fols tailgating and will always let faster cars by on the single track roads. another dig is can folks please dip there lights when pasing others it gets annoying being blinded a dozen times a night.

 

If the drivers I was complaining about would let folk past, there would be no complaint. You have no choice but tailgate them to some degree, on the flat when they're doing 55 a 125 simply doesn't have the oomph to take them, you gotta just tuck in there and put up with it. If they'd use their gearbox and throttle for what its designed and provided for and kick down with higher revs when they slow in braes, there would be no problem either, they'd take them faster than a 125 as well. Its only those who believe, for whatever reason, that you keep going in top and at a fixed throttle position until you are hovering above stalling speed before changing down that are the problem. I'd go as far as saying their driving behaviour amounts to "driving without due care and consideration for other road users", which I'm sure the average culprit would be in shock and denial about, as the most likely offender is a very conservatively dressed/groomed 60+ male driving a boring bog standard "family" car.

 

Is it any wonder that some of us bikers trade up to bigger motors ASAP and take every car at every opportuity?!? Its being closed down by the "trundling along at any speed we feel like for 30 - 55 brigade" for months or years, when you're stuck with a light and low powered machine that turns us that way.

[stilldellin]

Bring back da swinging sixties, just hitting " da ton " doon da back saand wi da auld vertical twin wi nae problems !!

[mogling]

Ghostrider-

"Is it any wonder that some of us bikers trade up to bigger motors ASAP and take every car at every opportuity?!?"

 

Exactly!

It was good fun 'serving your time' on a 125, but...

 

The "I never go above 45" / "I never look more than 15 degrees to port or starboard when driving" bunnet-ed Jam-cars drittling along looking out to sea to see whit boats are aboot are a bit of a hazard.

 

Mind you, the 'I canna sit ahint Anything redardless o whit speed dey're doin" brigade are equally hazardous. And very rude -overtaking 3/4/5 cars in a row as soon as you get to the top of the blind brae when aabody is looking forward to being able to safely get by the bunnet that's haddin-up the whole line.

 

 

I was once stuck ahint a bunnet for about 30 miles on a narrow windy road on the West Coast sooth who braked Every time he saw a bit of white paint on the road {arrows etc} Drittled along at 35-40, but nowhere straight enough to get by- the one and only decent straight stretch, he put the foot down...

... I got by him though