School closures back on agenda (2012 SIC cuts)

[Ghostrider]

People wee up in arms when they closed all the schools in da sooth end, but now most folk admit it was for the best in the long run.

 

But did it save money?

 

Interesting question. Five small schools, 1-2 teachers, minimal transport costs, versus single large building, four teachers but also four bus routes of on average say around five miles each way each day.

 

At a guess it probably turned in a small saving in the beginning, but then they felt they had to employ a secretary, then make the Headmaster's post non-teaching and hire another teacher to replace it, then hire a janitor.....

[Spinner72]

However, as someone you lived right through the "experiment" from day 1, while it may or may not have "worked" eventually, it was far from plain sailing for the first five or six years until everyone and everything found their natural order again. If it was the best thing long term, there was a significant unpleasant price to pay by the "victims" in the transition period.

 

This is yet another, if not the best or indeed essential reason to take a step back and make this a long term plan.

 

All these closures seem to have to happen within a few months (I have no idea what the timescale was when the south end changes were happening?)

 

It would be much easier to stomach for all if the Schools that were going to stay had their improvement works programmed, the various other infrastructure necessities mapped out, and whatever else is required with a view to x,y and z School being due to close 5 years down the line so everyone knows exactly what is going to happen.

 

There is bound to be disruption and an effect on education regardless, so surely minimizing it should be a top priority, or all the talk of "childrens welfare" and the like is meaningless.

[paulb]

good point spinner. it has been said before if skeld and sandness were to close. were would they go. walls school would need extra class rooms built. as the schools are not allowed to brake class sizes this has to cost more than any saving. the other alternative would be if aith was shut moving all the westside schools to aith.

[shetlandpeat]

They could install temp classrooms. The building of any extra classrooms

Could be done over time. If they do, they would do well to use local craftsmen

If the whole budget is over a certain amount they may have to tender. That could be thewhole of Europe.

[MJ]

good point spinner. it has been said before if skeld and sandness were to close. were would they go. walls school would need extra class rooms built. as the schools are not allowed to brake class sizes this has to cost more than any saving. the other alternative would be if aith was shut moving all the westside schools to aith.

 

Paul had you not noticed they squeezed the waas kids into 2 classrooms in preperation for the closure of Sandness. there has been a plan to build a new class room on to the school on the cards for a long time, it just kept on getting pushed to the back of the queue.

 

They could install temp classrooms.

Sometimes a little local knowledge would be an advantage. although Waas has playgrounds (unlike Eid Primary dept) it would be quite a hike from the ONLY door to anywhere suitable to put a portacabin.

 

Personally I still can't figure why on earth they built the junoir high in Eid in the 1st place. it's no where near central to the Westside, it's not on a main transport link, never had a real public transport link and that road (no matter how much they widen it) is dangerous.

 

I also still can't figure why at no point has the option of CLOSING WAAS hasn't been concidered. If children from Midwaas area were then zoned to Sandness, Waas & Wastburrafirth tae Eid and Gruting tae Skeld. Nursery provision being in Eid.

[paulb]

would the waas school building then revert to the folks that set it up. its happened in england the council had to locate the heirs to the estate. seems strange that they did not build it around bixter as that would have been the most logical place. thy will have to use aith for something and it would make sense to use it as the main primary for the west side.

 

but this does not mean i am in favour of it. non of the kids are in favour of going to the andrson.

 

for it to be practical they need the new anderson planned and built to take all mainland children.

 

once they have it running then they can start closing the junior highs and brae. the only ones it would be abig problem for would be the north mavine folks.

have mid yell to cover unst and fetlar with some emergancy accomidation in place just in case.

 

but i really don't see how this exercise is going to save masses of money they will still need most of the teachers the only staff that will be cut are the cleaning and admin staff.

 

subbing the backroom tasks of the education dept out to other councils or private companies may save some cash.

 

i was reading the staffing lists for the schools and education a few days ago its quite shocking the numbers of staff employed.

[Shasel]

but i really don't see how this exercise is going to save masses of money they will still need most of the teachers the only staff that will be cut are the cleaning and admin staff.

 

subbing the backroom tasks of the education dept out to other councils or private companies may save some cash.

 

i was reading the staffing lists for the schools and education a few days ago its quite shocking the numbers of staff employed.

 

This is indeed the rub in my opinion. Where are the savings come from? When you look at the options of closing schools in the North most of the schools would find themselves rather pushed for space and resources. Which would mean building new or finding temporary classrooms.

 

We really need to be a bit demanding of the council here to prove the savings. To not just put a single line item in of so many thousand saved and spell it out line by line how the savings are realised.

 

So if they close the school where do the kids go, what does that do to the school they go to?

[crofter]

i was reading the staffing lists for the schools and education a few days ago its quite shocking the numbers of staff employed.

 

Is that online somewhere, Paul? I wonder how it compares with eg Orkney?

[MJ]

Is that online somewhere, Paul? I wonder how it compares with eg Orkney?

 

there's always the "annual return" ie staff lists per school for each year http://www.shetland.gov.uk/education/AnnualReturn.asp

[crofter]

Is that online somewhere, Paul? I wonder how it compares with eg Orkney?

 

there's always the "annual return" ie staff lists per school for each year http://www.shetland.gov.uk/education/AnnualReturn.asp

 

Thanks MJ, seems we need 42 people employed before any teaching begins?

 

Head of Schools Service

Quality Improvement Manager

Quality Improvement Manager

Quality Improvement Officer

Quality Improvement Officer

Quality Improvement Officer

Quality Improvement Officer

Drama Coordinator

Creative Links Officer

Cultural Coordinator

(externally funded)

Dialect Coordinator

Education Support Officer

Education Support Officer – ASN

International Education Officer

International Education Assistant

Graduate Placement

MIS Support Assistant (Jobshare)

MIS Support Assistant (Jobshare)

Training & Development Officer

Field Studies Adviser

Enterprise Development Officer (externally funded)

Youth Issues – 16+ (externally funded)

Work Experience Organiser

Temporary Communications Officer

Clerical Assistant – Schools Service

Clerical Assistant – Schools Service

Clerical Assistant – Schools Service

Clerical Assistant – Schools Service

Clerical Assistant – Schools Service

Catering & Cleaning Manager

Catering Supervisor

Cleaning Supervisor

Administration Assistant

PARTTIME WORK FOR SCHOOLS SERVICE:

A further 9.7 FTE of staff time is spent on duties for the Schools Service from the following sections of the

Education & Social Care Department – Staffing, Finance, Reception, Planning & Information

[tlady]

^^^

 

[MuckleJoannie]

would the waas school building then revert to the folks that set it up. its happened in england the council had to locate the heirs to the estate. seems strange that they did not build it around bixter as that would have been the most logical place. thy will have to use aith for something and it would make sense to use it as the main primary for the west side.

 

Several old school buildings have been disposed of over the years. For example the old Whiteness school is now housing, the old Voe school is a private dwelling and the Gruting school is the public hall.

 

Aith is the main centre for population in its immediate area. The road from Bixter is being upgraded to be 2 lane most of the way so it should only be two or three minutes drive from Bixter.

[MJ]

Aith is the main centre for population in its immediate area.

As you ken this is only recently the case, they couldn't even support a shop when I was at school there, the factory was long gone and apart from the school and the lifeboat there was sausage all there. Not being a driver I'm unable to use the EMPTY facilities put there for the use of the folks of the westside.

 

The road from Bixter is being upgraded to be 2 lane most of the way so it should only be two or three minutes drive from Bixter.

Doubling it still does not make that road any less lethal, the worst bit has been doubled for many years. just try driving up there with a bit of snow or ice

[MJ]

as for the disposal of school buildings the laws have changed, and it's not as easy as it used to be. So every school building closed will still have to be mantained.

There is also the fact that Shetland is the same as the rest of the country and the birth rate is going up (something about less money so folks are spending more time at home)

[paulb]

the happyhansel was built by charity donations from the community. depending on what the deeds say it could well be sold off or it could revert to the community.

 

yes it won't matter now. but it would have been better to have been built at bixter.

 

now change is not always bad however when they are just doing it as cost savings then it tends to turn out bad.

 

thanks for posting that mj that where i was reading it from. i could not find a simular one for orkney but i bet there is.

 

as most people seem to be agreed that the education planning needs to be planned in the long term. they should roughly know how many children were born each year so should know how many children will need an education at reception/primary and secondary.

 

if they could prove that the change was for the benifit of the children then it would be halfway to being exceptable until that happens they are looking at annoyoing a quite high percentage of the population of shetland.

 

they can't wreck the childrens education for short term cuts.