joenorth Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 In a previous life I was a digger driver. I remember on some muckshifting jobs in Shetland finding treetrunks and branches well under the peat. At Hoofields in Lerwick (which we dug out in about 1988, I think) the buckets of the diggers were taking up huge amounts of wood among the peat, some of it pretty sizeable stuff. It seemed to be perfectly preserved (no O2 under all that peat, I suppose). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavi Ugl Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 A lot of folk(incl me) feel that part of Shetland's character is the treeless landscape. Infact, a friend of mine from Norway said to me just on Saturday that, and I quote, "I just love the free and open landscape, not a tree in sight:) Can`t wait to go back to your beautiful part of the world!". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorrie Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Take sheep (and rabbits) off reasonable land and watch the trees grow. Anywhere where the soil is just reasonable will do. The comments regarding wind/salt etc are valid, but only up to a point. If you plant enough foilage, the outer ones will take the brunt of the damage and this allows the rest to thrive. But sheltered spots would definitely become established much quicker. It works in Sutherland, Western Isles, Caithness...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofter Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Take sheep (and rabbits) off reasonable land and watch the trees grow. Yes. I had a few willows planted here, they were about 6 or 7 feet tall after 3-4 years. Then we had a lot of snow a couple of years ago and the rabbits got access to the bark above the 2 foot high plastic guards, nibbled off the bark and the trees died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 It works in Sutherland, Western Isles, Caithness......What you have in Sutherland is the horrible commercial conifer forestry plantations. If you have ever had a walk through any of these you wouldn’t want that in ShetlandThe majority of Sutherland’s plantations have been managed on a clearfell system, which provides little benefit to either biodiversity or local communities. A lot these went in as tax fiddles by the likes of Terry Wogan - now with low timber prices and distance from markets these are not being cropped and are wind-falling and rotting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilldellin Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 ^ Well, if these trees are going spare we could maybe get them shipped north for the Yell Biomass plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 ^ Well, if these trees are going spare we could maybe get them shipped north for the Yell Biomass plant. Probaby cheaper to get the biomass chips shipped in from Canada It is cheaper to import timber from Canada to Scotland than it is to harvest the timber in Sutherland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enkelt skapninger Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Ronas Hill still has woodland fungi growing on it, taking advantage of the low-growing willow that still grows there. Both fungi and willow are a hangover from the days of native Shetland forest. I'd love to see more trees planted in Shetland. Preferably native but suitable non-invasive trees from elsewhere a good second best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Just a thought, but as joenorth points out, there's little argument that Shetland wasn't enforested to some meaningful degree in the past, the, evidence is still in the peat moor pretty much everywhere moor exists. There's also little agrument that at the time it was supporting trees or at least treelike foilage, the climate was much less volatile and benign than it is now. Archaeologists cite this repeatedly whenever they are faced with explaining how an excavated dwelling or settlement they have just unearthed is located where today grass can barely survive due to exposure and altitude, instead of in the more sheltered low-lying areas where more recent dwellings and settlements are or have been. This applies to where people could apparently successfully, and chose to, stay as little as 1000 or less years ago. In a deteriorating climate, I don't think its unreasonable to suppose that the already established indigenous foilage was capable to a certain degree of acclimatisation, which helped it survive as long as it did. Imported seedlings do not have such a genetic advantage, and add to that anything remotely close to a native "woodland" hasn't existed here for centuries, during which the climate has by all accounts be subject continuing additional deterioration, the odds of recreating a "wood" in any sense of the word uneless in a few select locations, does not come with very great odds for success. However, if folk are determined to gve it a go, perhaps they'd be best starting off in Foula, as according to certain accounts of history/folklore, that is where Shetland's last "wood" existed, before a band of raiding, pillaging Scots came along and burned it out. Livestock, rabbits and weather may well all have played a part in decimating whatever trees Shetland may well have had once, but the honour or rendering them extinct, allegely at least, belongs to the Scots. So maybe appropriate, if not ironic, that Scots money gets thrown at attempting to regrow and recreate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulb Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 eu cash to be exact. the scots are just running the scheame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorrie Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 It works in Sutherland, Western Isles, Caithness......What you have in Sutherland is the horrible commercial conifer forestry plantations. If you have ever had a walk through any of these you wouldn’t want that in ShetlandThe majority of Sutherland’s plantations have been managed on a clearfell system, which provides little benefit to either biodiversity or local communities. A lot these went in as tax fiddles by the likes of Terry Wogan - now with low timber prices and distance from markets these are not being cropped and are wind-falling and rotting. Not quite correct. There's a lot of areas on the Sutherland estates that have now been planted with native species and fenced off to stop deer and sheeps getting in. The rate of growth is quite phenomenal. Admittedly, these areas are still nothing compared to the vast acreage of conifer, but it's a step in the right direction and has proved that it can work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorrie Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Just a thought, but as joenorth points out, there's little argument that Shetland wasn't enforested to some meaningful degree in the past, the, evidence is still in the peat moor pretty much everywhere moor exists. There's also little agrument that at the time it was supporting trees or at least treelike foilage, the climate was much less volatile and benign than it is now. Archaeologists cite this repeatedly whenever they are faced with explaining how an excavated dwelling or settlement they have just unearthed is located where today grass can barely survive due to exposure and altitude, instead of in the more sheltered low-lying areas where more recent dwellings and settlements are or have been. This applies to where people could apparently successfully, and chose to, stay as little as 1000 or less years ago. In a deteriorating climate, I don't think its unreasonable to suppose that the already established indigenous foilage was capable to a certain degree of acclimatisation, which helped it survive as long as it did. Imported seedlings do not have such a genetic advantage, and add to that anything remotely close to a native "woodland" hasn't existed here for centuries, during which the climate has by all accounts be subject continuing additional deterioration, the odds of recreating a "wood" in any sense of the word uneless in a few select locations, does not come with very great odds for success. ......... Indeed. Peat beds increase in depth at about 1mm per year. So if you find timber 1m down in a peat deposit, you can say with some certainty that this timber was flourishing about 1000 years ago. Also take into account that at the height of the 'Viking Age' there was a warmer period, then this would explain why settlements are found in areas that are now agriculturally untenable. To such an extent that when Iceland was colonised, it originally had a large coverage of woodland and Norse settlement remains have been found in areas far too high to sustian crops/livestock today (ref: 'The Hammer and the Cross' by Robert Ferguson) A similar period occurred over over a longer length of time in the Bronze Age. Which is a long-winded way of saying that you're right. Woodland won't do well in many of the locations where it was originally found (ie: large bare peat areas). BUT....there's plenty of marginal areas that are supporting thriving woodlands outwith Shetland - so no reason why it wouldn't work here with a bit of foresight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabiaTerra Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 I would just like to note that temperatures today are now higher than they were at the peak of the Medieval Warm Period. Also, concerning trees, there is apparently a whole ecosystem of symbiotic organisms which grow in the soil alongside the trees which are adapted to the individual species of tree and which assist the tree in extracting nutrients from the soil. If these are missing, as they will be when you grow trees from seed, the tree will be unlikely to thrive. This is why propagating native species from the few remaining examples in the isles is likely to be more successful than planting and raising from seed, or importing species from South. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorrie Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I would just like to note that temperatures today are now higher than they were at the peak of the Medieval Warm Period. Also, concerning trees, there is apparently a whole ecosystem of symbiotic organisms which grow in the soil alongside the trees which are adapted to the individual species of tree and which assist the tree in extracting nutrients from the soil. If these are missing, as they will be when you grow trees from seed, the tree will be unlikely to thrive. This is why propagating native species from the few remaining examples in the isles is likely to be more successful than planting and raising from seed, or importing species from South. Interesting to note that the ones that are planted and seeming to thrive in Sutherland appear to be Hazel, Birch and Rowan - all original native species. Going off at a tangent: One of my prize finds is a hazelnut I took out of a peat bank a good 3 meters from the surface near Garvault. I also have tree root from the same bank that dried out fantastically and is waiting to be made into a walking stick by my father. Not many folk can say they have a walking stick that is over 2000 years old ....... I reckon there'll be some strong medicine in a stick like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ of Hildisvik Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Some fine examples of low growind willows on Scallafield, shame some of them are in the site of proposed quarry for the bloody windfarm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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