Shetland Independent Newsletter

[KOYAANISQATSI]

As the man said;

 

Stuart Hill wrote:

I have always believed that being offended is a matter of choice.

 

Pilotcan wrote:

The general tone of peoples comments on this newsletter have been derogatory towards this newsletter in general. I'm not sure it merits villification on this scale.

 

"VILLIFCATION" I would rather see it as offering him a great range of choices.

[islandhopper]

Written in that aricle by Mr Nelson ...

edited and published by Mr Hill ...

In 1923, one vote gave Adolf Hitler control of the Nazi party

Well then, the party was founded in 1920, Hitler was in charge since 1921, and he never got anything with just one vote - unfortunately he managed to get strong majorities ... nevertheless we Germans had our one vote story: Mr Adenauer became 1st chancellor of the new Federal Republic by one vote ... his own as he always claimed ... 1949 - after WWII. Adenauer or Hitler, never mind, it's all more than 50 years ago ... and the source from which the author quotes: Best US christians knowledgebase ! They must know how the world is working.

 

So, don't be that pedantic - you might risk a resource for even better jokes in the future ...

[MuckleJoannie]

I see Stuart has a forum up now -

 

http://pub29.bravenet.com/forum/2458015112

 

I resisted the temptation to go for the free porn movie on offer

[Fjool]

How have you managed to persuade Docherty to judge the poetry competition?

[sludgegulper]

I used to know Pete Docherty very well. He lived several doors along from me. He was drunk & high nearly every night. Some character he was & maybe still is.

On second thoughts, I don't suppose it's the same Pete Docherty...

[Siggar]

Apert fae da clearly, weel, speechless renderin NS article (dir is a distinct line atween freedom o speech and irresponsibility - an i winder if Mr Smith will implode whin someane tells him dir ir Christians wha ir also Gay?), da muckle poll really is amazin me.

 

Well I'm a Christian and happen to be gay. Can I print leaflets?

[stuarthill]

This is a copy of a reply I put on The Shetland Independent forum. I accept comments about presentation etc - I've never done anything like this before and I think it's pretty good for a beginner! Things can only get better........

It is my belief that Nelson Smith expressed an honestly held view. Whether you agree with that view or not is up to you. My role is to provide a place for that view to be expressed, just the same as I would provide a platform for the opposite viewpoint. Those who demand an apology or retraction from me, or who think the police or other agencies should be involved, might look at the consequences of such action to our society.

Would you rather have the opportunity to have open discussion and be able to persuade people to come round to your point of view, or would it be better for everyone to conform to an imposed way of thinking? The minute we are not allowed to question the law is the point at which we become a police state.

The extent to which you find yourself being upset by any person or event is the extent to which you make yourself a victim. Everybody reacts differently to particular events – it’s not the event that causes the problem (in this case the event was the publication of the article) – it is each person’s reaction to the event that brings about their emotion. Every one of us can control our reactions and to the extent that we try to place blame for the way we feel onto somebody else is the extent to which we surrender responsibility and elect to be a victim.

Try looking at it this way: when you feel yourself getting angry, ask the question “What is it in me that makes me feel like this?†Say to yourself “I wonder why that person thinks that way?â€

Every one of us is responsible for his or her own feelings. As soon as we accept that responsibility we stop being a victim.

Some good points have been made in this thread – is it not better that these are aired and make people think?

As for the technical shortcomings of the forum, I totally agree and am working on it. It was a detail I missed in setting it up.

[stuarthill]

As for The Muckle Poll: Do you not welcome the opportunity to have a continuous democracy? Are you content with a system that allows a small number of councillors to decide how our money is spent?

It's an easy calculation - there are just over 10,000 households in Shetland, so each £1 million spent represents £100 per household. Are you happy that £5 million of our money (£500 from your household) was wasted on the Bressay Bridge saga. Did you have any say when £8 million (£800 of your money) was committed to re-vamping Scatsta for the benefit of the oil companies? 75p per month is a small price to pay compared with these figures.

I don't need to ask permission from any official body to run The Muckle Poll - I'm asking for permission from the only people who can give it - YOU.

If you want democracy to be a continuous event, rather than something that happens every 4 years, if you want to be able to have regular and meaningful input into how Shetland is run, then pick up your phone and vote.

0900 517 0124 to vote YES, I want the Muckle Poll

0900 517 0125 to vote NO, I don't want The Muckle Poll.

To put questions, the number is: 0911 781 0139, not as printed in the Newsletter - I've done my best to publicise this error. This number is working and a number of questions have already been put.

As far as the council is concerned, Morgan Goodlad has welcomed it (see The Shetland News), and of the 13 councillors I was able to contact at short notice, 10 were in favour, 2 had not received their newsletters and were not willing to comment, and one was doubtful that it would work.

If people use it, it has the potential to forge a new partnership between the SIC and the people of Shetland. At least give it a try.

[Fifi]

Spam for lunch anyone?

[Symbister]

 

The Muckle Poll? We’ll have to wait and see, but if people do use it, it could make a major difference. I hope it may provide the basis for a new partnership between the SIC and the electorate. Wouldn’t you like to have been asked before they wasted £5 million on the Bressay Bridge saga? Don’t you think the people of Shetland are entitled to have a say before the equivalent of £500 per household of their money is just chucked away? 75p. is a small price to pay to create that sort of partnership – if it works. I It’s not up to me to ask the questions – anyone can.

 

If someone wants to undertake a new publishing venture, I wouldn't discourage them. I do dislike the idea of free distribution though; many copies will go straight into the bin and that represents a waste of resources. Far better to see if people are willing to pay something for it.

 

I think it's fantasy to think that this sort of poll, which doesn't meet the most basic requirements of opinion research, is going to 'provide the basis for a new partnership between the SIC and the electorate'. As for the expressed 'support', no sane politician or public official, at least in our community, is going to oppose the free expression of opinion, so I wouldn't put undue weight on that.

 

You suggest that people can choose whether or not to be offended. Better, surely, to work on the principle that you have the choice, as publisher, to offend or not to offend. You might still choose the former, of course. But it's not a good idea to shift the onus to the recipient: that's an excuse for any and every sort of irresponsibility.

[righter]

Stuarthill wrote

 

""The extent to which you find yourself being upset by any person or event is the extent to which you make yourself a victim. "

 

Some people do not "choose" to be victims,it depends on what has happened to them in their life. If you had continually been on the receiving end of hatred,abuse and prejudice,because of your race,colour,sexual orientation or indeed religion,then you would react very differently to someone who has not suffered from these.

 

Stuarthill wrote

 

"Every one of us can control our reactions and to the extent that we try to place blame for the way we feel onto somebody else is the extent to which we surrender responsibility and elect to be a victim. "

 

again see above. I can only assume Stuart that you have never suffered at the hands of others or have the sort of personality that can shrug these things off (I suspect the latter) But it is a mistake to assume that everyone has the same inner or outer life as yourself.

 

Blaming the "victim" is a cheap shot. Whilst I fully agree with you that Nelson Smith has the right to air his views(and no doubt has his own frustrations at what he sees as the persecution of his own beliefs) you cannot be surprised that people are disgusted/angry.

 

If people choose to report those views to various authorities that is also democracy,and they will only be taken up by the authorities if they are views expressed in a way that break the law. Whether such laws are right is another story (or muckle poll)

 

Again I say,bringing out such odious opinions is the only way to pick them apart.

 

We do not have the space or time here to look at the belief systems of those people who think the bible is literal truth (at least those bits each individual group chooses to pick out and believe)but we can say from a logical point of view that they are wrong ie a good parent is a good parent is a.... in spite of their sexual orientation,financial situation,size of their body,colour of their skin etc etc

[KOYAANISQATSI]

SHETLAND Islands Council has welcomed a new initiative to create "direct democracy" with a TV style phone in poll. Readers will be able to pose a question and vote on pressing local issues with a 75p phone call. This will engender a new spirit of co-operation between the council and the public. On Muckle Poll Day people cane phone in and vote yes or no, with the result published on the website.

 

And what Muckle powers does the poll lay claim to over our council and going by comments on website can we trust the results of it to be true, accurate or in any way valid. I imagine the council would be delighted to have something which they can ignore at their leisure, while pointing the public on a bum steer.

How many Councilors will be commited enough to dig through spam for the results.

 

"To be truly democratic, the first question has to be 'Do you want The Muckle Poll?"

Perhaps better to first check if the people want to waste 75p on paper tigers, white elephants, chocolate fireguards, pissing in the wind, etc.

[peeriebryan]

re: the muckle poll

 

There are inherent weakness of 'pull' survey methodologies which require respondents to take concerted action and/or pay to answer a poll. The response population generally consists of people with opinions strong enough to drive them to take part, therefore producing a polarised response. In such cases, it can not be asserted that the results of a poll represent the opinion of potential respondents

 

For an opinion poll to be carry weight of validity, I suggest that a statement of the methodology should be published. The conclusions drawn from gathering quantitative data through telephone polls is open to opinion and interpretation. A methodology statement would aid in defining variables and procedures and serve to clarify the validity of results

 

I suggest that the demographic of the sample population should be published and a description of how potential respondents were made aware of the survey (the poll's telephone number changing from the one published in the newsletter will affect the validity of the sample demographic. Additionally, it can not be asserted that the poll accurately represents opinion in a geographic area if the poll is open to people out-with that area)

 

Statistical data should also be published including the number of respondents and a response rate defined by the sample population's potential respondents against the number of actual respondents

 

Might I also suggest that people who are not in favor of a telephone poll are unlikely to vote in a telephone poll, especially if they are charged to do so

 

I wish Stuart Hill and the muckle poll every success, but I question whether it is a valid and accurate instrument to "provide the basis for a new partnership between the SIC and the eletorate"

[JustMe]

Are some people being a bit hasty to write of sending the newsletter straight to the bin unread. If Stuart can attract enough advertisers to cover his costs and enough writers to make the newsletter interesting then it may well have a future. Delivery to all Shetland addresses is a big plus for advertisers and it will be an even bigger plus if the magazine is interesting enough to be kept in the home long after the Times has gone to the bin or the recycling bag.

[stuarthill]

Righter wrote:

I can only assume Stuart that you have never suffered at the hands of others

Have you not been following this thread?

I know of many people who would not be able to stand the abuse and ill feeling that has been directed my way - I simply choose to take it as constructive criticism. I could decide to feel hurt and that all my efforts are a waste of time, but I choose not to.

We have all heard of people suffering all kinds of abuse and trauma and yet not allowing their oppressors to get the better of them. I maintain that, whatever degree of abuse you are subjected to, whatever events you encounter, it is up to you how you react and how you react determines the emotions you feel.

Some people have chosen to be offended by Nelson Smith's article. Others have spoken to me expressing their support. In my view, neither is 'right' or 'wrong', but each allows themselves to be affected in different ways by the same event. It's not the event, it's the reaction to it that causes the emotion. As soon as you realise that simple concept, it becomes obvious that the one sending the abuse is the one with the problem.

Blaming the "victim" is a cheap shot

I don't do blame, or criticism - that's my choice.