World Cup

[peeriebryan]

You might be interested in this thread - National anthem

[islandhopper]

... to me the best comment so far about the 2006 championship came from a drunken Swedish supporter:

I do not like to sail home with TT-Line (that is the Trelleborg-Travemünde-Line) ...

... just after the 0:0 against Trinidad and Tobago ...

[Jimmy Jimson]

Just a thought...when did 'God Save the Queen' become the English national anthem?

 

ALL the home nations used to play 'The Queen' before international matches until Scotland decided it would be a good idea to play, first of all, 'Scotland the Brave' (of which very few know the words) and then eventually 'Flower of Scotland' (which is now past its 'use by date'). Wales obviously have always played their own. I believe Northern Ireland play 'God Save the Queen' before their matches. After criticism from some quarters for continuing to do so one of their political leaders said, "Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom and the national anthem is a legitimate symbol of the country". I suppose the English could say the same. And to be honest, I wish it was played before Scottish matches as well. It's time solidify the Union.

 

I have no problem with "solidifying the union" but not behind a hopelessly outdated concept such as a monarch. Not very 21st century.

[penfold]

Had to laugh at da commentators getting mixed up wi da numbers o players an fomations da streen whan Italy and da yanks were gettin stuck into each other , what do u aa think dan Argentina 4 da cup?

[JAStewart]

I support Italy for the win, but was dissapointed with last nights match. Italy were terrible at always being offside, and their players were quite unsportsmanshipy. Great drama in the game though, 3 people sent off, a goal and an own goal.

 

I hope for Italy to win but Argentina stand a fantastic chance after their awesome performance against S+M.

[Marooned in Maywick]

 

ALL the home nations used to play 'The Queen' before international matches until Scotland decided it would be a good idea to play, first of all, 'Scotland the Brave' (of which very few know the words) and then eventually 'Flower of Scotland' (which is now past its 'use by date').

Why do you think it's past its 'use by date'?

 

Some Scots, and I acknowledge you are unlikely to be amongst them, would contend that verse 3

 

Those days are past now,

And in the past

they must remain,

But we can still rise now,

And be the nation again,

That stood against him,

Proud Edward's Army,

And sent him homeward,

Tae think again.

 

demonstrates aspirations towards a breaking away from the union - current, not past its use by date by any manner of means.

 

 

 

Wales obviously have always played their own.

Why 'obviously'?

 

I believe Northern Ireland play 'God Save the Queen' before their matches. After criticism from some quarters for continuing to do so one of their political leaders said, "Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom and the national anthem is a legitimate symbol of the country".

Not Gerry Adams, I presume?

 

 

I suppose the English could say the same. And to be honest, I wish it was played before Scottish matches as well. It's time solidify the Union.

 

But my point is that they AREN'T representing the union.

They are representing the separate nations that make up the union.

 

Don't you get scunnered when you hear ignorant American (for example) tourists referring to 'the Queen of England'?

[Stan]

When I say that Flower of Scotland is 'past its use by date' I should have clarified that I meant that it was okay when it was first adopted to be played before matches - and I sung it as loudly as anyone else - but now it just sounds a bit of a dirge when thousands of people, most off key and out of time, are trying to sing along. Dig out your Corries album and listen to how it should have been sung. The lyrics are okay I suppose but not inspiring. If 'these days are past now' why spend most of the song singing about the past?

 

When I say Wales 'obviously' have always played their own it is due to the fact that they have been using it for at least 100 years, since around the time the Welsh Football Association was founded.

 

You are right, the English are not representing the Union but as part of the Union they have the right to play 'God Save the Queen' as Northern Ireland do and Scotland once did and Wales could if they wished.

[penfold]

How come when you post stan it always comes back to the corries r u their PR guru now? , and I dunna see the point in arguing aboot wha plays what afore da game because its gyan to be da argentinian tune i doot dats played last in dis world cup.

[Marooned in Maywick]

When I say that Flower of Scotland is 'past its use by date' I should have clarified that I meant that it was okay when it was first adopted to be played before matches - and I sung it as loudly as anyone else - but now it just sounds a bit of a dirge when thousands of people, most off key and out of time, are trying to sing along. Dig out your Corries album and listen to how it should have been sung.

 

I'll agree that it DOES sound dreadful when the crowd are either a few beats ahead of or behind the (usually) pipe band.

Additionally I've heard it said that a pipe band can't actually play it properly due to the third last note being a Bflat if the tune is played in C (any musicians please feel free to shoot me down in flames for THAT one!!). However as a team-lifter during a game (in the absence of a band) it can have the desired effect - or at least appear to

 

The lyrics are okay I suppose but not inspiring. If 'these days are past now' why spend most of the song singing about the past?

 

Not inspiring???

But we can still rise now,

And be the nation again

The nation to stand on its own two feet once more - free from the shackles of 400+ years of dominance and oppression.

If anything is past its use by date its the notion of this country being dictated to by those who know little and care less about it.

You ask why sing about the past?

As George Santayan said, in 1905, 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it'

 

 

 

When I say Wales 'obviously' have always played their own it is due to the fact that they have been using it for at least 100 years, since around the time the Welsh Football Association was founded.

 

Nah, not letting you off the hook with that one.

Does that mean it'll be okay for Scotland to use their own song without comment or criticism in say 80 years time?

 

You are right, the English are not representing the Union but as part of the Union they have the right to play 'God Save the Queen' as Northern Ireland do and Scotland once did and Wales could if they wished.

 

Again, no, no and thrice no.

England are representing England and ONLY England, so they should use their own song even if it is a negro spiritual song from the 19th century.

I have absolutely NO problem with GB teams at e.g. the Olympics using GSTQ as they are, in this instance, representing GB&NI (while such an entity exists ).

The fact that England DO play GSTQ simply exacerbates the belief from outwith these shores(from the ignorant) that GB=England=GB.

I ask again, do you get scunnered when you hear her referred to as the 'Queen of England'?

[Stan]

I'm enjoying this debate guys, however I feel I must enter my last thoughts on matters by noting the following:

 

Personally, I would disband international football altogether, but that's a seperate debate.

 

Scotland has neither been dominated nor oppressed since joining the Union but has played a dominant role in its success. It had a major part in the prosperity brought about by the industrial revolution. We have produced explorers, scientists, inventors and Nobel Prize winners for this that and the other. Our education system is second to none. The threads on these forums are proof positive of that!

 

My opinion is 'Flower of Scotland' is no longer inspiring nor does it feel right for the modern Scotland. Why not sing about our existing culture rather than how we feel we were hard done by many centuries ago? So it's all right to sing about the past now? I therefore hope that no-one denounces Rangers fans agains for singing about battles in 1690! Again, that is a separate subject .

 

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick regarding my comments on the Welsh anthem. When I say 'they' have been using it for at least 100 years I mean the Welsh as a nation, not their sporting associations. The Welsh have 'obviously' accepted it as their anthem - for now. They may change it sometime, who knows.

 

I repeat, England have a right to play 'God Save the Queen'. May I also remind you that it remains the anthem for Scotland too. No offence but any other Jacobite or shortbread-tin ditty we play in its place is unofficial while the Queen or her successors remain Head of State.

 

Yes, it's annoying when people refer to the 'Queen of England' but I put that down to ignorance rather than arrogance. However many Scots, including myself, refer to her as Queen Elizabeth the Second. As you know, she is the second for the English of course, but the first for the scots. Do we bother to correct anybody? No, because it doesn't really matter. If some folk want to say Queen of England then so be it.

 

Well, that's plenty for me, I think, unless someone comes back with something that I couldn't possibly let go without getting the soapbox out!

[penfold]

I cant say that I care one way or another about the Union and anthems etc, outside of supporting my National team, I like to watch entertaining football and while im not really a fan of Argentina, Spain etc they are the best entertainers of the tournament so far and thats why im not backing england cos they so far dont entertain me and thats the bottom line.

[Mario]

Going to kinda jump back to the England fotoballing side in general now.

 

What must Michael Carrick be thinking? Left out in favour of Owen Hargreaves - dear me. He really has never shown an promise in and England shirt whatsoever. Carrick has had a fantastic season at Tottenham and is playing second fiddle to this clown. Poor lad. I feel sorry for him.

 

I think England will win tonight and dump Sweden out of the competition. T&T will scrape a last minute goal. Jason Scotland to make his first appearance and score!

[bob saccamano]

I agree that Michael Carrick should play ahead of Owen Hargreaves but Eriksson seems to have a big problem with Carrick. Don't know why. Having said that I thought Hargreaves actually had a decent game last night. Nothing spectacular but nothing dreadful either.

[JAStewart]

I think England will win tonight and dump Sweden out of the competition. T&T will scrape a last minute goal. Jason Scotland to make his first appearance and score!

 

How wrong were you.

 

Argentina VS Holland tonight, thats gonna be amazing.

 

I hope Ecudor smash England, but thats never gonna happen. If england don't win it this year, they won't for AGES.

[Tomblands]

Owen's injury looks worse everytime you see it. It gives me the willies, especially the close up slow motion that ITV were showing....ugh.