Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[paulb]

so your objection is it will damage your view. this used to be one of the most perfect views in the uk.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bbc.co.uk/northwesttonight/content/images/2007/05/24/windfarm_470_470x352.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bbc.co.uk/northwesttonight/content/image_galleries/weather_pictures_we250507_gallery.shtml%3F8&h=352&w=470&sz=11&hl=en&start=2&um=1&usg=__2Zssye6-FGWk0o0cFSv9Y9C6Sec=&tbnid=EhF4nj5UCNpdAM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmorecambe%2Bbay%2Bwind%2Bfarm%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4ADBS_enGB261GB261%26sa%3DN

[PJ of Hildisvik]

We have one of the best views in Shetland, i won't see out of the window, thats not the point, i have lived and worked in the great outdoors all my life, i object to Ecological disasters created by money grabbing humans, and object to faced trapped as a prisoner in an industrial wasteland, unless i move to the NW slope of Ronas Hill, in maybe a bloody concrete ECO dome

[paulb]

i see so it comes to nimby syndrome, picture sullom outside your window. they are attractive turbines.

http://contemplativelydeceptive.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/teletubbies-happypreview.png?w=433&h=236

and an eco house to.

[PJ of Hildisvik]

^^^^Very good, how they remind me of certain councillors!

[sheepshagger]

hopefully the just anounced plan for tidal stream power getting the go ahead will put this bloody wind farm to rest once and for all.

[Carlos]

The tidal power turbine plan seems to be moving fast, if those initial 60 turbines will be completed by 2011. Good news hopefully.

 

http://www.shetlink.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6259&highlight=

 

Getting up to the 25,000 MW range would seem to have it's own issues though..... I presume they would be scaling up the sizes, and not having 25,000 x the 1MW sized turbines initially proposed, but even then it is many thousands of turbines/generators and a lot of km of cables to be under all those fast tidal streams.

[ArabiaTerra]

Well, it's not going to happen immediately but I think it will go something like this.

 

Transport is the biggest user of oil, but alternatives such as hydrogen, electric and bio-fuels are nearly ready to be deployed on a commercial scale. When this happens there will be a collapse in the demand for oil...[]........ When they close so will Sullom.

 

^This statement, i 'm genuinely sorry to say, i think is naive. I'd take a wager that this collapse in demand is a long way off, high oil prices are doing great things for government and private funds.

I have to disagree with you here. Sooner or later the world is going to start taking global warming seriously and actually start making the changes necessary to reduce it. Once that starts, it will happen quickly.

Secondly, the peat comment is absurd - as others have said.

Yes, I know and I've conceded this point.

Thirdly, (in response to an earlier comment) investment in salmon farming has been pretty successful in terms of employment and the economy, it's a shame that most of it has become ultimately Norwegian owned but it still has a huge economical benefit.

True, but I was specifically addressing the point made principally by Ghostrider that many of the firms which the SIC have poured millions into have gone bust without repaying the money, therefore the SIC's business acumen is suspect. Salmon farming was mentioned as an example of this.

Fourthly, the idealistic view of this wind utopia falls short on economic practicality. The farm will be profitable dependent on subsidy and capped transmission charges. The cost of electricity will go up as a consequence of investment in the technology (as stated at one of the first public meetings by a senior rep of SSE) . The cost of government/european subsidy will have to be raised from usual sources, ie you and i, so to pay for this electricity we will have subtly higher taxation and unsubtly higher electricity bills. Now, saving the planet may cost a few bucks somewhere along the line, i know that, but it's maybe just as well to let the mega wealthy corporations carry on figuring out how to replace fossil fuels than to sell our soul on this fragile, entirely externally politically dependent gamble (that may under perform in the predicted extreme weather we are expecting, if you want to factor in global warming and add another 'if' to the proposal).

If the windfarm needs subsidy then so will all other renewables, except more so. You are comparing wind generation to the status quo of gas and coal fired power which is a false analogy as fossil fuel are no longer an option. It would be fairer to compare it to the cost of Nuclear, wave, tidal and solar, all of which will be significantly more expensive than wind power. Wind farms are the cheapest renewable option available and therefore, the most profitable.

... we could be massively above EU environmental targets in a relatively short space of time, with minimal risk to the reserve funds and no substantial envronmental impact.

The problem here is that EU targets are pissing into the hurricane. Even if we met all EU targets it would do next to nothing to stop GW. We need the total elimination of fossil fuels within 20-30 years. Nothing else will do.

 

This news about the tidal power in the Pentland Firth is great and I fully support it, but just think about the cost for a moment. Building the turbines will be similar to wind turbines, but what about installation, and maintenance? They will cost 2-10 times as much to install and run as a comparable windfarm. Just ask any oil engineer about the comparative costs of on-shore and off-shore oil production. (Sheepshagger, you could perhaps give us the benefit of your expertise here. )

[crofter]

but what about installation, and maintenance?

 

This is a good point, and it will require boats burning diesel to do it! They will presumably need to be periodically anti-fouled, or will the blades not grow up if they are constantly moving?

[paulb]

what about the fishing .what impact studies etc.

[PJ of Hildisvik]

^^^^Ah yes, the fishing.

25.000MW of under water turbines, far more reliabe than wind, the tides don't stop, unless the moon spins off into outer space.

The power companys state that the blades spin slow enough as to not bother fish,well they would say that wouldn't they, there is just as much SPIN so to speak below the waves as above me thinks!!

Tidal power on that scale versus fishing grounds, do i think there will be conflict, you betcha!!

But it will be ok, cos they will have underwater diversion signs that the fishes can take heed off.

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

but what about installation, and maintenance?

 

This is a good point, and it will require boats burning diesel to do it! They will presumably need to be periodically anti-fouled, or will the blades not grow up if they are constantly moving?

 

 

So what will the installation and maintenance of a windfarm require by comparison?

 

Are you ignoring excavation, road widening, new access roads, concrete, quarrying, transport vehicles, maintenance vehicle is all this not comparable if not far worse.

[PJ of Hildisvik]

^^^^Also the mining of metals for the massive interconnector, what country supplies that? and the footprint of all that shipping of materials, ships being one of the worst polluters in the world.

[paulb]

^^^^Also the mining of metals for the massive interconnector, what country supplies that? and the footprint of all that shipping of materials, ships being one of the worst polluters in the world.

shipping lb for lb is the cleanest forms of transport. how much of the sea bed would have to be fenced off to protect it from nets. would the electro magnetic stuff begger up the fishs receptors . the gunk that they would have to treat them with to keep them clean will have a big impact on the enviroment. the only sticky bit on a wind turbine is the odd seagull and thats organic.

[PJ of Hildisvik]

The bit that should give all sea users the colly-wobbles, and that was Alex Salmonds statement, refering to an underwater Saudi Arabia, how nice!

 

AT....I actually agree with you that the only real solution is ban all usage of fossil fuels right now, let alone in 20 Years.

Of course it's pure Sci-Fi

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

the only sticky bit on a wind turbine is the odd seagull and thats organic.

 

What about the odd peat bog or the odd quarry or the odd thousand tons of concrete?