Windwalker Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 The more I listen to any of these politicians, the more fed up I feel. None of them can be trusted and they will twist the truth, promise the world, then go back on their promises. We’ve seen it all before. As I’ve said before this current uk parliament and the Scottish parliament have decided to ignore the people’s democratic votes, so let’s hope they all lose their seats and some fresh blood gets voted in. Suffererof1crankymofo and Urabug 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capeesh Posted November 21, 2019 Report Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) @GhostriderSNP published policy... "We believe that the best way to build a more prosperous and equal Scotland is to be a full independent member of the EU."But Scotland doesn’t meet the criteria where its current deficit sits and that’s unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.The quote above from the European Parliament Committee on Constitutional Affairs that said..."..as Scotland meets the criteria.." wasn't made up, it can be found by anyone, the report was published, it's in the public domain.You're maybe confusing EU membership criteria with Euro (currency) membership criteria, Scotland already meets the criteria expected from all EU applicants, we wouldn't be in the EU as we speak if we didn't.Here's whats required... The Copenhagen Criteria are a set of conditions and standards which the EU demands that member states adhere to. These conditions relate amongst other things to the strength of a country’s democratic institutions, freedom of the press, protections for national and ethnic minorities, respect for human rights, and having a functioning market economy. Finally, although this is technically outwith the Copenhagen Criteria, the applicant country must also be in legislative alignment with the body of EU law which has been built up over the decades, known as the acquis communitaire. Edited November 21, 2019 by Capeesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 @GhostriderSNP published policy... "We believe that the best way to build a more prosperous and equal Scotland is to be a full independent member of the EU. Which, on the face of it still remains a contradiction - perhaps the SNP should (have???) provided a definition for what exactly they mean 'a full independent member of the EU' is. As without it, the statement is nonsensical/worthless. The EU, by definition of what it is and how it operates only has members and non-members, there is no such a status definition or state of being as 'full independent member'. Either the words 'full' and 'independent' in that statement are superfluous/redundant, and their inclusion only serves to confuse the reader, or they're referring to some type of EU 'membership' only they themselves seem to know/believe exists. If they stated "We believe that the best way to build a more prosperous and equal independent Scotland is to be a full member of the EU", it would beunambiguous and provide clarity, but that's not what their statement says - The positioning of the word 'independent' is at another location in their's, which alters the meaning of the whole statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 The SNP has always and still do define independance as independant from the UK *and* the EU.No they don't, they've been promoting "Independence in Europe" since the mid 80's Just because you think it and say it doesn’t make it true, perhaps you could back this statement up with some evidenceThe European Parliament Committee on Constitutional Affairs did a report on it here's some quotes... "There now seems to be a consensus that, were Scotland to become independent by legal means, it could join the Union." "There seems no basis in EU law for the assertion that membership would be impossible, as Scotland meets the criteria and not since de Gaulle’s veto on UK membership in the 1960s has a democratic country respecting the rule of law been refused admission." "No member state suggested that it would veto Scotland’s membership and none has done so since." "Some opponents of independence have said that Scotland would have to join a ‘queue’ behind the Balkan countries. EU accession has never worked on the basis of a queue. Applicants are accepted when they are ready, not on the basis of when they applied." Capeesh, This is just "waffle" as we all KNOW that Scotland could join the EU. What Scotland CANNOT do at the moment (as others have pointed out repeatedly) is QUALIFY for membership as our economy just doesn't match the standards required. IMHO, it would take many years of really painful "austerity" just to get Scotland close to qualifying. The SNP might be wanting to have their cake and eat it but, I think that they would choke on the first mouthful. Windwalker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windwalker Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 I think some people believe if they keep saying something long enough, they will fool other folk into believing it. IMHO Scotland couldn’t go it alone without hefty taxation and reduction in spending. The current deficit is large enough and we are already taxed at a higher rate than the rest of the U.K. If Scotland decide they want independence and Shetland votes against it, I hope the SNP will honour our position and allow the will of Shetland to remain with the rest of the U.K if it wishes too. me thinks somehow it’ll be don’t do as I do, just do as your told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George. Posted November 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 If Scotland decide they want independence and Shetland votes against it, I hope the SNP will honour our position and allow the will of Shetland to remain with the rest of the U.K if it wishes too. And if Scotland decided that it wanted to go Independent, what chance would there be of Westminster honouring it? We've been stripped bare the whole way, ever since James VI gave us away - purely for his own benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachmill Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 Shetland already voted to remain in the EU. We also voted to remain part of the UK for which Scotland was told the UK would remain in the EU. The goal posts have moved since all of that and, heaven forbid, we'd get a chance to change our minds... but we aren't allowed to do that apparently. Our vote to remain in the EU had the largest winning majority too. The next poster to start with "But..." wins a prize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachmill Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 And if Scotland decided that it wanted to go Independent, what chance would there be of Westminster honouring it? We've been stripped bare the whole way, ever since James VI gave us away - purely for his own benefit. Boris flat out wouldn't allow it. He said so on the last debate... not that what he says and what he does often align in reality. Corbyn wouldn't allow it initially as he wants a chance to put the country right, which, while a tall order, sounds sensible to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windwalker Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 And if Scotland decided that it wanted to go Independent, what chance would there be of Westminster honouring it? We've been stripped bare the whole way, ever since James VI gave us away - purely for his own benefit. Boris flat out wouldn't allow it. He said so on the last debate... not that what he says and what he does often align in reality. Corbyn wouldn't allow it initially as he wants a chance to put the country right, which, while a tall order, sounds sensible to me. Corbyn just sits on the fence with everything as he thinks not choosing a side is his safest vote winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roachmill Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 Corbyn just sits on the fence with everything as he thinks not choosing a side is his safest vote winner. That's unfair. He regularly gets hauled over the coals precisely because of his convictions / principles. Boris' repeated one liner during the entire debate clearly demonstrated their thinking that branding him a fence sitter, on what is quite an easy stance to comprehend, is a vote winner. As does the majority of the terrified media owners given their propensity to repeat it ad nauseum. Trying to take all sides into consideration is not a character flaw and plenty times he's been proven right. thebfg and Wheelsup 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urabug Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) I would like a lot more clarity on how an independant Scotland would manage /fund the following :- 1---Currency will it be totally different to the rest of Britain, or the Euro and will it be index linked,in some way so the value of a tin of Heinz beans or whatever will more or less be the same through Britain. 2--- If there is a difference in value in currency between the rest of Britain will a border control be required to stop folk taking advantage (smuggling) . 3--Assuming the value of Scotlands monetary sytem changes ,how will this affect our pensions. savings , investments ect , ect, who will compensate for any losses. 4---Defence who will protect us and train our military, to operate our planes, ships and army ,ect .5---Education will it change, no longer a “national” curriculum for instance.Would a student from Scotland still be able to train in England and still get whatever bursary they might be eligible for. 6---NHS how about medics ,will they be able to work and train anywhere through Britain ,and the same goes for patients with certain problems requiring care outside Scotland. 7---The legal system will no doubt be kept busy also implementing the many changes There are many more issues that spring to mind like fishing,agriculture ,land ownership,police,coastguards, oil industry, ect,ect. Edited November 22, 2019 by Urabug Roachmill and Wheelsup 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelsup Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 There is one way the SNP could get rid of the Tory Government it "apparently" despises. And as it has no real interest in being in Westmnster, they should tell all their members and supporters to vote Labour in this General election. thebfg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George. Posted November 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 ^Why vote for a political party that's based in another country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windwalker Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 Corbyn just sits on the fence with everything as he thinks not choosing a side is his safest vote winner. That's unfair. He regularly gets hauled over the coals precisely because of his convictions / principles. Boris' repeated one liner during the entire debate clearly demonstrated their thinking that branding him a fence sitter, on what is quite an easy stance to comprehend, is a vote winner. As does the majority of the terrified media owners given their propensity to repeat it ad nauseum. Trying to take all sides into consideration is not a character flaw and plenty times he's been proven right. We obviously differ in our opinion of Mr Corbyn, I see a man that will not make his position clear on a number if issues which makes it very difficult to vote for Labour as you have no idea what direction he would follow, should he get in. Whilst trying to sell his manifesto, saying what he would give away and put money towards he forgets to mention things like doing away with the single persons discount on the roof tax or what ever they call it now. These are things that can have a huge effect on elderly single folk who are already on the bread line, but they try to keep that quiet. The last time they were in power they nearly bankrupted the country, requiring years of austerity which they then blame the conservatives for. All I’m reading in various news items is his manifesto cannot be paid for without raising taxes considerably and that’s before he buys out rail, post etc. Then they want to give more power to the unions so they can call strikes at the drop of a hat. In my opinion Labour will bring this country to its knees and someone will have to come along and tighten the belts again. mind you in saying all that, I’m not convinced any of the parties are suitable at present to sort out this country. As yet I’m lost who to vote for, but I do know it won’t be Labour under Mr Corbyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelsup Posted November 22, 2019 Report Share Posted November 22, 2019 Why vote for a political party that's based in another country?Why stand for election to a Parliament in another country, when you respect neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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