Have the police lost our respect?

[whodat]

Just thought I'd throw this one out there.

 

By and large I have to say that, looking back on them all, I have liked and even admired most of the bobbies or polis I have met over my lifetime.

 

However, of late, both in the Highlands & Islands and in my hometown (Edinburgh) I have noticed that more and more of the "wee men" seem to be creeping in. I am not being size-ist, I am referring to a mentality. You can tell straight away who was bullied or overlooked at school and who has something to prove.

 

My father and his friends - who were decorated soldiers and served in WW2 - used to say of the army that some wear it, some just are the uniform.

 

In the days when I was growing up, the bobbies were for the most part big, big men. Most were soldiers back from the war or came out of national service (some of my friends did just that, me, I'd been a bad boy by that time, otherwise, who knows...). They were part of the community and known to all and - most importantly respected by most, if not all. I knew bobbies who'd be happier thumping criminals rather than arresting them (P.C.'s Rose and Murray in particular would give P.C. Murdoch a hiding if they'd ever caught him!), because they understood that did more good and folk saw justice served.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for a return to polis bundling folk into the backs of black vans and giving them kickings, because I KNOW that went on as well, especially from the late 60's onwards.

 

I just think that somewhere along the way, a connection - an essential connection - between us and them has been lost and I wonder if it can ever be regained. I fear not.

 

I know that until the amalgamation of forces, Shetland (or Zetland) had their own force from their own community, and I just wonder if things were better then and if we'd have the dross hanging around the streets starting us down the same slope as other places if the Shetland force was still in place.

 

I don't have that knowledge, so over to those of you who do...

 

I have watched a lot of the ones here, and who have been here in recent years. I have to say, it got bad a wee while ago, but I think they are getting better again now. I genuinely believe that it is a job where the majority of folk joining do so because they want to make a difference, and they continue to strive to do so. Unfortunately, all it takes is one or two clowns and things get dragged down and folk start believing they're all like that.

 

Officer Dible, no offence but without seeing you "in action", I reserve judgement, if - as has not yet been established - you ARE a polis.

 

A polis should be like the ones in my youth, the men who didn't have to wave a baton or shout to command respect. I have met men like that here, but not many. I know things are more dangerous (allegedly!) these days and they need their body armour and CS and metal truncheons and the like, but with all that paramilitary combat gear in full view, it detracts or distracts from the man (or woman) doing the job. It should make them work harder to show folk they are STILL human beings and not robots. While I am on it, I know more women these days who make better polis, as they don't have the "wee man" mindset and (mostly) do work harder to ensure that people see them as human.

 

Opinions? Answers? Abuse?

 

Bring it on, gie's laldy if you want.

 

But gie's peace.

[Marooned in Maywick]

Respect seems to be becoming a bit of an old-fashioned concept these days. People who would, once upon a time, have automatically been respected e.g. Police will be finding that's not the case.

Why? There'll be a myriad of reasons - individuals being more questioning, greater instant access to all sorts of information etc etc.

However, I would suggest that most folk will have relatively little contact with the Police so opinions will, to a certain extent, (and depending if people just see the uniform or individual officers) tend to be guided by the nature of that contact be it good OR bad. And most people, I'd respectfully suggest, will remember instances where they have been treated poorly rather than neutrally.

I remember 25 years ago being accused of something entirely minor and insignificant at a local disco in Sandwick. I knew I'd not done it, the people around me knew I'd not done it but PC Whoever-it-was turned around and told me I'd done it and that he'd seen me doing it and he and his sidekick took me outside and gave me a bit of a grilling. Now I AM able to see past the uniform and appreciate that was simply a case of one officer being in the wrong but I'd suggest there are many who wouldn't be so understanding (oh, amn't I so virtuous ) and their respect will be consequently diminished.

One bad apple, and all that.

[Caeser]

This is a condition not limited to the police.

 

Its what is known locally as 'peerie mans disease'.

 

You notice them in public life at the SIC, LPA etc.

 

Small people who have something to prove. They cannot just go with the flow, but need to be seen to punch above their weight, at the expense of peace, and common sense!

 

Have a look around you - bet you can all see someone with PMD.

[Njugle]

As a personal anecdote on the "loss of respect" idea:

When i were but a peerie lad we had a brilliant local bobby in Scalloway by the name of PC Gilbertson. He was always out and about in uniform, chatting to folk and being sociable, friendly and available. An asset to the community, with no barrier between him and anybody form the smallest of kids to the oldest of pensioners. If any of us youngsters misbehaved (no lights on your bike was a common crime) he would bellow out at you as you shot past with your peerie legs a blur and his greatest threat was "I'll speak to your parents!", which he rarely did, but the point was he did know who they were and where you lived. Good times.

 

Then came the next guy. I think it would be fair to say that by reputation he was a bad apple, from everybody's perspective. As kids our whole world flipped around as the guy commanded no respect, was abrasive, belligerent, unsocial and distant. We couldn't stand him. His answer to the behaviour of bairns was to chase us in his car, shout us down (i got caught with fireworks ) and threaten you with the full letter of the law, which means nothing to a pre-teen except fear and offense. The result of all this was that he became a target. I'd love to tell some tales of that, but feel obliged to refrain, and i'm sure his life was increasingly less pleasant, which was reflected in his policing. It was a great day when he left.

 

The current "local" seems to be blurring the barrier somewhat by being out and about a braa lot, but not in uniform, which makes you wonder whether he's being social or indeed "Sneaky" as he's been titled in a totally inoffensive manner. He seems alright, and therein lies the key, if the police function "among the people" you can form an opinion of them and they become a part of your locality. If they remain detached, they are a uniform with weapons attached.

[wharkabis]

Unfortunately I cant comment on the recent policing in Shetland as I've been away for a while. What I will say though is that in Edinburgh it is becoming more and more apparent that recent recruits to the force seem to be generally less educated than the average bobby we've come to know. This is then reflected in their poor judgements, people skills, honesty lack of respect and ability to improve their job.

 

Also, I know of at least a couple of stories which almost defy belief regarding policing in Edinburgh. In particular I know of one case where the victims of a repeated burglary (from communal mail box) were so fed up with the lack of police action they had a vigil to catch the perpetrators themselves. They actually caught the guys, had a word with them, then gave the descriptions of the criminals along with the number plate of their car to the police. Now, you would think this was an easy one to solve for PC plod, but no, they did absolutely nothing! No how can you have respect for people who just dont do their job even when you have done the hard work !!

 

They are bloody quick enough to hand out anything that involves a simple fixed price penalty though. Nice and easy and a great fundraiser!!

[Colin]

The current "local" seems to be blurring the barrier somewhat by being out and about a braa lot, but not in uniform, which makes you wonder whether he's being social or indeed "Sneaky" as he's been titled in a totally inoffensive manner. He seems alright, and therein lies the key, if the police function "among the people" you can form an opinion of them and they become a part of your locality. If they remain detached, they are a uniform with weapons attached.

 

I quite like Scalloway's current incumbent. Had a quick chat with him on a few of occasions and he seems like quite a decent straightford type.

As for 'sneaky', I don't think so. If you know your local policeman, it doesn't matter whether he's in uniform or not. Far better than knocking on the station door (as I did on one occasion) to be told "I'm off duty, try phoning Lerwick". OK, I was only trying to hand in some lost property (someone's keys) but I always thought that they were never 'off duty' and the paperwork could have been done later.

[nobbystiles]

I know someone who many years ago admitted to doing something he hadnt done just to get the police off his back. They put the friteners on him, tellin him they knew hed done it and there was no way he could get out of it. I lost all respect I had for the police after that. No doot there are some good bobbys around, even now, but there doesnt seem to be a log of respect all round.

[ArabiaTerra]

I lost all respect for the local force when a friend of mine was stabbed (superficially, but it was a wound caused by a knife) in the ass by a notorious troublemaker. The incident happened in broad daylight, in front of several witnesses and my friend went to casualty and had the wound treated and photographed. He handed over the photo, the name of the assailant and the names of the witnesses.

 

He is still waiting for action. This incident happened more than two years ago!

 

Oh yeah, the villian was arrested a month or so after the incident, for playing his stereo too loud!

[Strawb]

I think in general the police dont get much respect up here. Down south people tend to be more reassured by seeing a 'bobby on the beat' as they have greater problems with street crime, whereas in Shetland it just kinda seems like the police have to fill a quota of arrests per month, and therefore will pick on the most trivial things just to balance the books! This, combined with the fact that when something a bit more serious does happen they seem totally uninterested, probably contributes to the lack of respect........

[whodat]

But do the Polis in Shetland really make THAT many arrests? You talk about filling quotas, etc, I have heard of them dropping off our friendly neighbourhood jakey at his house on occasion rather than lift the poor man. Surely he'd be an easy mark if that really was the case? Are you saying the folk they arrest don't deserve it? If not, they can complain, and if enough did and their civil liberties are being abused, let's get something done about it. Or are folk just bumping their gums as in, "I know a man who was speaking to his auntie who heard from her hairdresser about a guy who knows... ad nauseum" Shetland is not some backwater South American barrio police state where the big bad polisman can cart you away for looking at him cross-eyed.. or IS IT?

 

Anyone care to enlighten me?

 

Gie's peace.

[The Man]

Seems to me any job has it's bad apples. I have stayed in various parts of Scotland and England and have seen good and bad coppers alike. I have to say tho that the traffic ones are what really gets the majority a bad name. You can't helpbut think most times "Go catch a burglar" and wonder why they want to do that job. Is it cos they're no use at catching "proper" crims? I know, I know, road safety etc is a MAJOR issue, even in Shetland, but I have more respect for ordinary coppers or el CID than I do for these white hatted "heroes". I have seen and heard some (in Glasgow) telling folk trying to pull them over to report a crime to "look for a beat car"!!! Rather than take the complaint and deal with it themselves! Unreal! It suggests they have a "caste" system amongst them. Wonder who's top and who's underclass? Probably depends on who you'd ask.

 

I don't know the local cop in Scalloway, so I can't comment (maybe that iin itself speaks volumes). I thought it was the wee man who bides there but his hair is way too loing and I've been told in the Boating Club that he's plainclothes. He'll pass the time of day with you, at least, and seems too "normal" to be a copper. He's not uptight or up hisself, you know what I maen? Mind he's the exception to te rule probably as i've noticedyou could take out a tape measure and guess what their attitude is going to be like. Teh taller the better, it seems. You could have guides like the kiddy rides at DisneyWorld. "Sorry Mr Policeman, you're under 5'8" therefore likley to be a twat, I think I'll report this to the big man behind you!" I dont think they'd be best pleased. Hah!

[Yowe]

Unfortunately, almost any time I've had to deal with or see in action the Shetland police, I've been disgusted by their sneering attitude and unprofessional approach. I think there must be truth in the theory that Shetland gets the cops that are too crap to be anywhere else. It's hard to have respect for them.

[HonestJohnDoe]

I hear the squad car was charging up Commercial Street with sirens going on last Saturday, putting fear and alarm in us poor old people out buying our press and journal? whits yun aboot?

[Tomblands]

I hear the squad car was charging up Commercial Street with sirens going on last Saturday, putting fear and alarm in us poor old people out buying our press and journal? whits yun aboot?

 

If that's true, it's disgraceful.

 

I mean, who still buys the Press and Journal?!?!?!

 

Anyway...

 

I guess it might have something to do with this "youth disturbance in town" story from the Shetland News today.

 

http://www.shetland-news.co.uk/pages/news%20stories/10_2006/youth_disturbance_in_town.htm

[Rasmie]

They must've have trying to sneak up on them... there's a more direct route from the station to fort charlotte!