Colin Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Seriously you can't comprehend two christian homosexuals wanting to get married in a church. Given that the position of the churches might be that they are opposed to such a non-christian union. Don't you think that the people wanting a church wedding ceremony might be sticking two fingers up (not in the biblical sense, I hope) in the hope of makng an issue of their sexuality? Personally, I find same-sex marriages quite sad. Go and live together if that's what you want to do. Get a Civil Partnership going but, don't expect institutions with rules centuries old, to change just to accomodate you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanofNess Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Given that the position of the churches might be that they are opposed to such a non-christian union. Don't you think that the people wanting a church wedding ceremony might be sticking two fingers up (not in the biblical sense, I hope) in the hope of makng an issue of their sexuality? No, some might just be religious and prefer a religious ceremony. Personally, I find same-sex marriages quite sad. Go and live together if that's what you want to do. Get a Civil Partnership going but, don't expect institutions with rules centuries old, to change just to accomodate you. The times are a changing, if the church didn't let people in who had committed sin or were continuing to do so they'd have no people attending services. So if you can let the butcher in who actively coveted his neighbours wife, had an affair with her then they subsequently left their partners to shack up together. How is it fair you can't let Larry and Gary attend church in a loving relationship which they want recognised in the eyes of the god they worship. Religion is full of hipocrisy, you can kill people and that's fine as long as you seek forgiveness, you can be a decent hard working person who loves someone of the same sex but that isn't allowed because some bigot wrote it down in a book centuries ago. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabiaTerra Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Religion is full of hipocrisy, you can kill people and that's fine as long as you seek forgiveness, you can be a decent hard working person who loves someone of the same sex but that isn't allowed because some bigot wrote it down in a book centuries ago. Go figure. It's one of the Fundie's four main sacraments: Hate,Lies,Ignorance,and Hypocrisy. But it is nice to see that the more progressive sects are able to set aside the bigotry of their holy book and act like civilised human beings for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unlinkedstudent Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 ^ and ^^ crumbs, I'm either ill or it a Monday morning ... I find myself in agreement with JON and AT. Not all churches are so 'forgiving' though, are they? Isn't there a difference too between the local vicar suspecting that the butcher is at it with her who lives at the house with the nice rose bush compared to a couple of gays who are upfront and honest about their relationship and hide nothing? Yikes, this thread has gone on for a while now and I haven't scrolled back but wasn't there something about churches being exempt and that they wouldn't be forced to marry gay couples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George. Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 No, not all churches are so forgiving, are they. Survey supporting same-sex marriage branded 'flawed' by Catholic Church The government consultation has had 50,000 responsesContinue reading the main storyRelated Stories Gay marriage petition handed overCardinal criticises gay marriagesEvangelicals against gay marriageThe Roman Catholic Church has dismissed a poll suggesting the majority of Scots support same-sex marriage. An Ipsos Mori survey found 68% of 1,003 people asked agreed that religious organisations should be able to marry same-sex couples if they want to. The survey was carried out for the Equality Network, LGBT Youth Scotland and the Scottish Youth Parliament. But a church spokesman said asking whether people support the right to do something solicits a positive response. The survey results, which also indicated 64% support for the right of same-sex partners to marry, come as the Scottish government is due to publish the results of its consultation on the issue this month. Consultation processThe government launched the consultation stating it "tends towards the view" that same-sex marriage should be introduced but that faith groups and their celebrants should not be obliged to solemnise the ceremonies. The Scotland for Marriage group, which is supported by some religious groups, has campaigned against the proposal. But the Faith in Marriage campaign - a coalition including, among others, the United Reformed Church, the Quakers, Buddhists and the Pagan Federation - has spoken out in support. Continue reading the main story“Start Quote The public in general are very wary and unlikely to suggest a person shouldn't have a right†Peter KearneyRoman Catholic Church spokesmanSpeaking to the BBC's Sunday Politics Scotland programme, Peter Kearney, spokesman for the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland, said the poll was "deeply flawed". He said: "The public in general are very wary and unlikely to suggest a person shouldn't have a right. "When you begin your question by saying should someone have the right to same-sex marriage you automatically have distorted the result. "To be honest the poll that matters is the three-month-long consultation that took place at the end of last year and in that one we know that the vast majority said marriage shouldn't be redefined." Public 'voice'Tom French, from the Equality Network and Equal Marriage Campaign, said: "Around the world increasing majorities of the public are saying that they support same-sex marriage. "It's supported in parliament as well, last week we announced that a majority of MSPs have signed our equal marriage pledge saying that they will vote for this. "So we're saying to the Scottish government - listen to the public, listen to the parliament and you've got the green light to go ahead with legislation." Mr French said such legislation would not force religious organisations to conduct same-sex marriages if they opposed it. But Mr Kearney said that any opt-outs being proposed simply cannot be delivered under UK and European legislative frameworks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouth Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 The church is normally well behind society so there are no surprises here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 No, some might just be religious and prefer a religious ceremony. So, you would force a church (of whatever denomination) to change it's rules to accommodate them?How many Jewish/Catholic/Muslim etc homosexuals. would expect to get 'married' in one of their churches? The times are a changing, if the church didn't let people in who had committed sin or were continuing to do so they'd have no people attending services. So if you can let the butcher in who actively coveted his neighbours wife, had an affair with her then they subsequently left their partners to shack up together. How is it fair you can't let Larry and Gary attend church in a loving relationship which they want recognised in the eyes of the god they worship. Smokescreen and not valid as part of this discussion.The only thing I can point out is that, according to the teachings of the church, the god they currently worship does not seem to approve of them. Selection can be a two-way thing. Religion is full of hipocrisy, you can kill people and that's fine as long as you seek forgiveness, you can be a decent hard working person who loves someone of the same sex but that isn't allowed because some bigot wrote it down in a book centuries ago. Go figure. Religion IS hypocrisy..Anyway, what makes you think that it was a 'bigot' who wrote the rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanofNess Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 So, you would force a church (of whatever denomination) to change it's rules to accommodate them? No How many Jewish/Catholic/Muslim etc homosexuals. would expect to get 'married' in one of their churches? Dunno, never seen a poll asking that question. Smokescreen and not valid as part of this discussion.The only thing I can point out is that, according to the teachings of the church, the god they currently worship does not seem to approve of them. Selection can be a two-way thing. Perfectly valid, highlights the glaring double standard in religion. How can one sinner be acceptable and another never so?. Church can hardly hang it's hat on something not being acceptable under its "rules" and yet allow known breakers of the rules access to the church because their breaches are deemed more acceptable. Religion IS hypocrisy..Anyway, what makes you think that it was a 'bigot' who wrote the rules? Sure as hell wasn't an even handed liberal that wrote them or people wouldn't be excluded for preferring their own sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjasga Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 They absolutely should be allowed, but why a same-sex couple would want to have their partnership recognised by the church - a body that considers their actions sinful - is completely beyond comprehension for me. Seriously you can't comprehend two christian homosexuals wanting to get married in a church. Is this a question? Because, if so, the answer is yes. I don't really understand homosexual people being Christians, given it's a religion that rejects their right to that choice. For me, that would be enough to reconsider my stance. By all means they can have that faith without argument from me, but it's really not a choice I can understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanofNess Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 ^I don't think thats a lack of comprehension but more a difficulty to relate to why someone would have something in their life that conflicts so directly with it, to be honest I don't know why they would put themselves through it. If there are any gay devout christians on here pipe up and let us know how it feels It's probably fair to say the indoctrination of the religion comes before the acceptance of homosexuality as most people who become fully fledged members of the god squad are exposed to the teachings of the bible from an early age. Some people cannot drop one to accept the other and vice versa which causes some people to want both in their life. The fact the church is so intransigent on such issues should be enough to drive most sensible people away but clearly some folk just need to have God/Allah/Buddah whatever in their life even if it does fly in the face of who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuckleJoannie Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Some church members seem to have a problem with gay ministers,never mind marriage. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-13708804 An Aberdeen church is expected to break away from the Church of Scotland following the decision to allow the appointment of gay ministers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longdog Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Erm...when did Buddhism enter the discussion johanofness? For the sake of clarity there are no issues there as marriage isn't a Buddhist sacrement for a start. Plus most branches of Buddhism are not anti homosexual at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanofNess Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Erm...when did Buddhism enter the discussion johanofness? For the sake of clarity there are no issues there as marriage isn't a Buddhist sacrement for a start. Plus most branches of Buddhism are not anti homosexual at all. You missed the point chief. I was just saying some people need to have god or whatever in their lives even when it may fly in the face of who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longdog Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Not wanting to side track the discussion, just clear that one up. I figured you were really just meaning 'whatever your religion/God' when you listed God/Allah/Buddha. I got your point, just that it doesn't relate to Buddhism as there is no particular issue with who you are in it. Also there's no belief in a God in Buddhism, Buddha is not considered a God. Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Sure as hell wasn't an even handed liberal that wrote them or people wouldn't be excluded for preferring their own sex. How do you know that?. I don't know when the 'rules' were written but, I might suggest that they reflected general opinions/dictats of that time. The writer might have been the equivalent of a tree hugging bunny stroker for all we know and not a bigot at all. I think that the only (in)sane solution is to tear down every church, synagogue, mosque and every other place of worship you can find.No churches = no church weddings. Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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