Poll - 2019 Shetland MSP by-election

[soothodahill]

[MOD EDIT - stay within Shetlink's T&C's]

 

 

^ Considering the majority of SIC 'manager' types and a few Councillors came in da Sooth Mooth, the push for sporrans, haggis and Gaelic to be imposed upon us by the SIC isn't that outlandish.

 

Left to Councillors we're almost certainly safe, but let that bunch of un-elected suits in plush offices who are the ones who actually run the show, get an idea in to their head, and they take some stopping.

 

Anyhow, whose going to stand for the Brexit Party in this, they'll get my vote.

[Capeesh]

...Keep the SNP, the kilt, the sporran, the bagpipes, and the clan chiefs and tartans where they belong, on the Scottish mainland...

...The history of Shetland shows we have little to thank Scottish lairds and lords for.

The Scottish Lairds were doing the same all over Scotland not just Shetland. If you're looking for the modern day equivalent you won't find them in Holyrood, they're more likely to be in the Palace of Westminster snoring away at our expense in the House of Lords or on the Tory benches in the House of Commons.

I would like to think most people are intelligent enough to place their vote based on policies that affect their everyday lives not on Scottish tartan shortbread stereotypes, roadsigns or things that happened centuries ago. Policies like our bairns being able to Uni without them having to pay £9,000 a year tuition fees, free prescriptions, longer nursery hours, free care for the elderly or any of the many other things the Scottish Parliament has done to make myself and many other of my fellow Shetlanders lives better since devolution.

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

Ah yes, just who can forget the total cock-up by the SNP and their contempt towards crofters, or putting local nurseries out of business (why should I pay for subsidised childcare for someone else's sprog?); no such thing as full time adequate care for the elderly (did you miss the bits about family homes being sold then?), free prescriptions aren't free (taxpayers, again, of which we pay more than in England/Wales), long Scot National Health Service waiting lists and free at the point of delivery as opposed to free at the point of need; that is, when and if you actually GET an appointment, not to mention  no local MRI scanner.  S'funny how NHS staff get a higher overnight stay allowance for hotels than us mere patients but never mind, that's a Scot. Gov. policy.  Sooner we get shot of the SNP, the better.

 

[Capeesh]

^^

Tax the sick with prescription charges.

Abolish free nursery places.

Make working parents pay extortionate childcare costs.

Axe free education.

Saddle our youngsters with £36k tuition fee debt before they even start working.

Hard Brexit to really damage crofters livelihoods.

I don't fancy your party but hey ho, each to their own

Edited July 11, 2019 by Capeesh

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

@ Capeesh - That certainly isn't my party either.

[Claadehol]

Well Capeesh, I seem to remember the last SNP man we had here in Shetland was a clan chief who owned, (inherited), a rather large estate in Perthshire. As an ex Etonian he would have been quite happy in the House of Lords.

 

Of course his pedigree was hushed up as much as possible for obvious reasons.

 

Are you suggesting he is/was the only one? 

 

As for the free prescription charges, this encourages vast amount of waste, it should be free for certain cases but not all. The same applies for the free buses, that's certainly handy but people who can well afford to pay should pay. Common sense needed here, these things fall on the taxpayer eventually and only increase the deficit. 

[Ghostrider]

^^

Tax the sick with prescription charges.

Abolish free nursery places.

Make working parents pay extortionate childcare costs.

Axe free education.

Saddle our youngsters with £36k tuition fee debt before they even start working.

Hard Brexit to really damage crofters livelihoods.

I don't fancy your party but hey ho, each to their own

 

It doesn't need to be, and arguably shouldn't be an either/or scenario, but that unfortunately is what everything has become in the 21st C. - If you're not with us you're against us mentality rules.

 

All of these things are good, but in proportion, moderation and where appropriate. Free prescriptions are fine and well for life saving drugs and for folk who cannot afford to pay. For everything and everybody, not so much. Free and subsidised nursery places have their place too, for low income workers and for those currently unemployed with a firm offer of a low income job, but difficult to justify for most of the rest. The public purse should first and foremost buy in nursery spaces from commercial enterprises where they are available, and should only provide them where demand outstrips supply. Costs needn't be extortionate, they needn't even be excessive, the public purse knows how much it would cost them to provide such places themselves, all they need to do is offer commercial providers a price less than that amount, take it or leave it, and everybody is happy, and better off.

 

Free education is great, but when it extends to every Tom, Dick and Harriet over 16 getting it on demand, its gone too far. A good basic education from 5 to 16 should be plenty to set everyone up to start out in life, over 16's should only be getting free education if they have a demonstrated talent for the subject, and/or there is a shortage in a particular field.

 

Don't get me started on crofter's livlihoods and the Scot's Govt. They've left nothing to destroy after the way they've carried on these last 4 years.

[Davie P]

Well Capeesh, I seem to remember the last SNP man we had here in Shetland was a clan chief who owned, (inherited), a rather large estate in Perthshire. As an ex Etonian he would have been quite happy in the House of Lords.

 

Of course his pedigree was hushed up as much as possible for obvious reasons.

 

Conspiratorial nonsense to add to the Gaelic roadsigns!

 

By "....hushed up as much as possible for obvious reasons", I presume you mean "....in the public domain, regularly reported in the media and information was freely available from a range of sources"

Edited July 11, 2019 by Davie P

[Claadehol]

Well said Ghostrider, well said! Everybody getting everything free is ridiculous and leads to systematic abuse and waste. As for the university education I agree wholeheartedly. How many more students do we need leaving the uni with degrees that prove useless re future employment. Philosophy degree holders who end up working at Tesco for instance.

It all has to be paid for by somebody, it aint free.....

Money saved by scrapping free prescriptions for everybody would save a fortune for a stretched NHS. Spend money on those in need and where it is needed.

[Davie P]

Let's play a game! For every example of someone folk on here don't think worthy of having their tuition fees waived, I'll post evidence of the net social and economic benefits of having a well educated population across a wide range of subjects (and the benefits of having a well resourced higher education sector that attracts large amounts of external investment by means of international students and research income).

 

Personally, I have no problem with those who can afford to contribute something being compelled to do so. But it is rather simplistic argument to say there has to be a specific job at the end of a degree to be worthy of taxpayer support. Many areas of economic growth in Scotland have come directly from innovation and development at Universities, and the benefits are not as immediately apparent or clear cut as, for example, someone doing an apprenticeship in a trade.

 

As an example, I recall when Abertay and Dundee universities, and the Dundee City Council, invested in computer game development ('leisure software') some years back. The naysayers were many (just a bunch of layabouts sponging off the taxpayer on their Playstations etc etc), but this investment has turned Dundee into a world leader in the field. 

[Ghostrider]

Okay, I'll bite. Here's a random few from our own UHI. Remind me again why teaching anyone this stuff is a good investment for my tax dollars?

 

What exactly am I, or Shetland in general going to benefit from anyone in Shetland knowing any of this?

• Archaeology and CriminologyBA (Hons)
• Archaeology and TheologyBA (Hons)
• Archaeology with Gaelic StudiesBA
• Criminology and TheologyBA (Hons)
• Culture, Heritage and CriminologyBA (Hons)
• Culture, Heritage and TheologyBA (Hons)
• Culture, Heritage with Gaelic StudiesBA (Hons)

 

Archaeology or culture or heritage are all good and useful, and there are other UHI courses catering to them as stand alones. Criminals and religion (if there's a difference between the two?) mixed in among it around here is a pretty limited subject, with even more limited usefulness to anyone here, let alone the Gaelic.

[Urabug]

Is there a course on "common  sense"

 

Plenty of folk are well educated and highly qualified but lack "midder wit"

[Davie P]

In response to Ghostrider - Realising economic and social benefits through archaeology, https://www.archaeologyshetland.org/

 

Re: "What exactly am I, or Shetland in general going to benefit from anyone in Shetland knowing any of this?" - I agree that "Archaeology or culture or heritage are all good and useful", and I dare say there are many immediate economic benefits to students coming to study in Shetland. There's also archeological and cultural tourism as Shetland is rich with archeology, culture and heritage, and regular conferences which attracts international visitors. 

 

Also, UHI courses are usually offered across the Scottish UHI network so students may be studying at any of the campuses, or from home via VC, so I imagine Gaelic modules would have a better uptake in the Western Isles than Shetland. I believe UHI also have a large number of part-time students who are studying and working.

 

Re: mixing subjects - joint degrees, or degrees where students can select a number of optional modules, are common. Having a degree doesn't guarantee a job, it just proves you can study (research and analyse sources for validity, process information, construct and present compelling theories etc) to a certain level. It's very common (perhaps most common?) for jobs to be advertised as 'educated to degree level' or 'hold a qualification in a related area' to encourage a wider pool of applicants. A specific degree in a single subject certainly doesn't mean you can only work in that area.

 

Since philosophy was mentioned earlier, it's actually a very valuable degree as it demonstrates that students, and therefore job candidates, can process and communicate complex information. Philosophy is often combined with other subjects (e.g. linguistics, economics, politics etc) as it provides students with a set of tools for debate and reasoning.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Davie P

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

@ Davie P - I'm educated to PG level without a first degree.  I paid for it myself.  I did, however, get a disability grant to assist with travel and equipment.  So whilst I understand what you're saying about proving capability of studying, what you haven't really addressed is why the taxpayer should pay for people to be educated beyond say the age of 18.  Incidentally, it isn't just youngsters who attend universities, there were plenty of mature students like myself when I did OU and it was all mature students on the course I enrolled on at Ruskin.

 

Having a degree doesn't help if you are employed say as a driver, electrician or a secretary when you don't have an advanced driving qualification, aren't NICEIC registered, or can't touch-type!  Apprenticeships surely would be of more benefit albeit I hasten to add they really ought to be more financial support when undertaking one.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Suffererof1crankymofo

[Capeesh]

As an ex Etonian he would have been quite happy in the House of Lords.

 

He wouldn't have been an SNP candidate then. There are no SNP peers because unlike LibDems, Labour and the Tories who regularly award themselves, party donors, and other cronies peerages (800 members and rising), they believe the unelected upper house is an "affront to democracy", they've described the House of Lords as "the most absurd and ridiculous legislature anywhere in the world" and that it "should be abolished". They believe so strongly about it they put it in their constitution.