Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[PJ of Hildisvik]

Paulb...ever the optimist

Been/going to a meeting yet?..you can have your say!

 

So it seems that a figure of £81 million is needed of our public money to chuck at the project so we can borrow hundreds of millions more, nice!

 

The Flea thinks it is too much to ask 24 councillors to make the decision of yay/nay on this, so us lot should do it for them,emm?

 

And the penny has dropped, once work has started it will be a long time before any money comes back into the coffers.

According to apparent information that'll be no money for 2 years and only 6 million in the third year, this assuming that the whole thing can be completed in 3 years, what bull.

 

According to VE the projections are for it to take 5 years, David Thomson told me this today.

It will take a few years for the infrastructure and roads to be built and weather permitting a couple of years to stick the turbines up.

 

To get their figure of 23 million into the CT coffers, all the bloody turbines will have to be up and running, that could take a while

Meanwhile we are not going to be making much investment with the remaing dregs of the oil funds.

[PJ of Hildisvik]

The 81 million contribution has gone up from 72 million, this will be phased in at the rate of 27 million each year, with only a return of 6 million in the third year depending on whether any turbines will be up and running.

That to my mind is an unacceptable gamble.

[paulb]

pj apart from spoiling your views. what real reason do you have for being so anti. folks have hammered AT for being so pro farm so lets hear your real reasoning.

 

the counsellors don't have the right to throw this out only the Scottish government. your group can claim to represent the Shetland population but has there has never been a proper independent vote on the subject. what happens if it came out in favour would your group go away then. of course it would not because after all you know whats best.

 

Ive lived near turbines and yes they do change the view but they don't destroy it.

 

you group has scare mongered and tried to make out that they will be a disaster financially and environmentally show us you independent studies that prove this.

 

so PJ tell us why a private company could not wreck your views and keep all the profits for themselves. as other have said the power company would not invest if they did not think it would make a profit.

 

so again what is your real objection.

[Njugle]

If the majority of Shetlanders are against this the Councillors should stop the project and refuse to allow any other developers to build on the Busta Estate rendering the the project unviable for other developers in the future.

 

Hmm, not really. They could allow a more reasonable sized development from this developer, or others, given that the land in question was zoned as suitable for windfarm development long ago. Many people are against this scale of development, not wind turbines per se.

[PJ of Hildisvik]

Paulb...on Shetlink i only express my own views not those of Sustainable Shetland even though i'am on it's commitee.

 

In a nutshell if you read the Enviromental statements of the RSPB, the Amenity Trust, SNH, John Muir Trust etc, that's my concerns on the project.

Wild life and Enviroment is a far higher priority than whether i will snuff it here in a gold plated care home.

The money, self interests and greed have taken over this debacle, at the detriment of the "World class enviroment we have around us.

It's a shame that only 1% of Shetlanders actually venture out onto the hills , kids especially, more time spent observing the wildlife and nature we have here would broaden their horizons beyond material things.

 

This is a small rock, to build the biggest WF in Europe on it is totally out of all proportion, we will be living inside it, this is unaccepatable.

Have you read the VE EIS? it is so full of holes it is like Swiss cheese, why do you think the bodies mentioned above have pulled it to bits?

 

We have just recently been given Geo Park status, believe me we wouldn't have got it if the WF was here, part of having GP status is to increase tourism , what chance of that if the project goes ahead?

But to VE and co tourism is not important and wouldn't be missed.

Iam not getting involve in global warming now, but this wind farm will contribute to it, not reverse it , you don't build on peat, you can't put the hills back to how they were, when you are leaving roads and bases in tact,

No amount of tiny mitigation projects will compensate for that.

 

And lets face it with the interconnector in place there is no stopping the WF to be extended to the rest of the Isles , if i was the developer thats what i would do.

Shetland has a great opportunity for energy conservation to cut it's carbon footprint, starting with sic and Hjaltland houses.

You will not stop people flying, not so much holidays but also hospital trips, and all our food , well most of it has to come up on high polluting ships.

The fishing fleet ain't exactly green.

Perhaps those who don't need 4x4's should be given some incentive to change.

Nothing is impossible, but laying waste to some of Europes best landscape and carbon sink is total lunacy, just for the financial gain of a few greedy individuals

[OriginalUsername]

Wild life and Enviroment is a far higher priority than whether i will snuff it here in a gold plated care home.

The money, self interests and greed have taken over this debacle, at the detriment of the "World class enviroment we have around us.

 

Believe it or not, some people actually view Viking as a green project. I know that, even if the Trust wasn't involved, I would still think it was a good project. Not the amazing project I see now, but good and worthwhile and I would send a letter saying "yes" to the ECU.

 

As it stands, I would send a letter saying "hell yes!"

 

You may perceive it as being all about "greed and money" but have you stopped to think that perhaps it's because you're so hell-bent against it that you see this?

 

It's a shame that only 1% of Shetlanders actually venture out onto the hills , kids especially, more time spent observing the wildlife and nature we have here would broaden their horizons beyond material things.

 

I agree with this. Though I do think that if we didn't have the material comforts, this wouldn't be an issue. People in poverty don't have time to go out observing wildlife for pleasure unfortunately.

 

This is a small rock, to build the biggest WF in Europe on it is totally out of all proportion, we will be living inside it, this is unaccepatable.

 

On the other side of the argument: as home to a world class wind resource, amazing infrastructure already in place and one of the largest carbon footprints in Britain - building a large wind farm here is entirely appropriate.

 

Have you read the VE EIS? it is so full of holes it is like Swiss cheese, why do you think the bodies mentioned above have pulled it to bits?

 

Yes I have read it. I thought it was a good document - great compared to other ES' I've seen actually. There are a few problems, but if you speak to the developer most questions can be answered.

 

I wouldn't say that the RSPB and SNH have pulled Viking's ES to bits. In fact, I would say that they went out of their way to praise Viking and leave room for further debate on the subject. Considering the scale of the project, I guess this means Viking have done something right!

 

John Muir object to nearly every windfarm development going and that makes sense, considering their remit, so fair enough to their objection.

 

I won't comment on the Amenity Trust objection - I'll merely point out that some of the things they suggested should've been done by the developer would cost tens of millions. This doesn't make much sense to me.

 

We have just recently been given Geo Park status, believe me we wouldn't have got it if the WF was here, part of having GP status is to increase tourism , what chance of that if the project goes ahead?

 

A good chance. Green tourism is a very fast growing industry. We would still have the stunning coast and seabirds that many tourists come to witness. And we would have a means to help combat fossil fuel price rises. Most tourists cite the cost of transport to Shetland as a top priority for change.

 

But to VE and co tourism is not important and wouldn't be missed.

 

This is simply untrue. I have never seen anything from Viking claiming that tourism is not important or wouldn't be missed. That is your interpretation it seems. It makes me sad that you feel the need to make statements like this. Couldn't you say "I disagree with VE on the effect the wind farm will have on tourism" and then back up your argument with some facts?

 

Iam not getting involve in global warming now, but this wind farm will contribute to it, not reverse it , you don't build on peat, you can't put the hills back to how they were, when you are leaving roads and bases in tact,

No amount of tiny mitigation projects will compensate for that.

 

The majority of the peat on the site surveyed for the wind farm is in poor condition. This means that the site is already a net carbon EMITTER. It is not storing carbon, it is releasing it into the atmosphere as we speak.

 

VE plan to build on the poorest quality peat and actively restore and enhance the rest of the fragile peatland on site. Doing that will cost money. Money that won't be there without VE. Without VE our peat will actually be contributing to climate change. With VE, this could possibly be prevented and then some (if you take into account that the most likely scenario involves the wind farm offsetting carbon for over 20 years).

 

I'm pretty sure VE's Habitat Management Plan isn't a "tiny mitigation project" and again, that is your interpretation of the plans.

 

And lets face it with the interconnector in place there is no stopping the WF to be extended to the rest of the Isles , if i was the developer thats what i would do.

 

Well that would require planning permission for an extension in the first place, so yes, there is plenty to stop that!

 

Lucky for us you're not the developer I think! VE have already outlined a vision for a future Shetland where marine renewables can be developed and exported using the spare 60 MW on the cable. Sounds good to me.

 

Shetland has a great opportunity for energy conservation to cut it's carbon footprint, starting with sic and Hjaltland houses.

You will not stop people flying, not so much holidays but also hospital trips, and all our food , well most of it has to come up on high polluting ships.

The fishing fleet ain't exactly green.

Perhaps those who don't need 4x4's should be given some incentive to change.

Nothing is impossible, but laying waste to some of Europes best landscape and carbon sink is total lunacy, just for the financial gain of a few greedy individuals

 

Again on the greed thing. It's interesting to me that you keep going on about that. You need to comprehend that other people have different opinions. For one person generating £37 per annum into the Shetland economy is the height of generosity - think of the amazing public services! But for you this is greed. This is where we differ. I think of community green schemes funded by CT money and schemes to help the marginalised in society to integrate. And yes, care-homes.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you picture - big fat old business men clad in gold spun robes in a castle-like old folks home?! I kid. But if you could explain your interpretation of how the SCT money would be used "greedily" I'm sure we'd all like to hear it.

 

I agree on all the green points you've made above though. These big emitters, in my opinion, need big solutions. Community projects are wonderful, but they will not balance out our lifestyles.

 

I'm all on board with everyone who says we have to stop living the way we do but every little only helps a little. Unless we all get our asses off the computer and go right back to basics, we are still going to need big projects.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUSTRE58S4L420090930?feedType=RSS&feedName=environmentNews - a very scary thought.

 

"A rise of at least two meters in the world's sea levels is now almost unstoppable, experts told a climate conference at Oxford University on Tuesday.

 

"The crux of the sea level issue is that it starts very slowly but once it gets going it is practically unstoppable," said Stefan Rahmstorf, a scientist at Germany's Potsdam Institute and a widely recognized sea level expert.

 

"There is no way I can see to stop this rise, even if we have gone to zero emissions.""

[PJ of Hildisvik]

WOW, originalusername straight from the "Holy Bible" of windfarm developers

 

You've made your mind up, best of British

[justsomeguy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8263541.stm

 

Windfarms the ruination of tourism eh...?

 

 

I think a few people on here could benefit from a trip to this centre.

[unlinkedstudent]

Right, who from the south end wants a lift up to the hall tonight?

 

One place going and no having a dig at my driving skills.

 

First to PM who lives down here gets the lift!

[khitajrah]

^^^ I agree with everything you've said, OriginalUsername.

[sweetsmucks]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8263541.stm

 

Windfarms the ruination of tourism eh...?

 

 

I think a few people on here could benefit from a trip to this centre.

 

 

2 million pounds for a visitor centre to learn how turbines work?!! Has da world gone mad?!![

[PJ of Hildisvik]

2 million for the Whitelee site info centre.

Of cause VE would want one that costs 5 million with accompanying airstip to bring all those thousands of windy supporters here

[unlinkedstudent]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8263541.stm

 

Windfarms the ruination of tourism eh...?

 

 

I think a few people on here could benefit from a trip to this centre.

 

 

2 million pounds for a visitor centre to learn how turbines work?!! Has da world gone mad?!![

 

2 million squids is a lot of dosh to pay for admission to something

[paulb]

you could then ask how much is being spent on say sumburgh lighthouse. even if viking energy were to spend £4 million or more its coming from the company not us.

 

if they really did a good job of repairing the hundreds or even thousands of years of our peat digging then it could become a world class attraction. after all your keen on ecotourism so why not.

 

pj let me make this clear if we spend the cash now and have no resource to replace it those so called gold plated care centres will close. as there is no private care centres up here that could even remotely cope with the demand our elderly folks would have to leave Shetland to get care.

this is fact some special cases are having to leave now.

 

is it greed to want to insure that Shetland is on a sound footing for the next generation. If we don't have a strong income then the depopulation of Shetlands youth will get worse. when it reaches a certain point these island become uneconomic to live.

 

ask the older times what it was like up here in the 50s and 60s. these islands were poor do you really want to go back to that level of life.

 

so these killer turbines are going to destroy all the bird life and ecosystems that they are near. please tell me what the restored peat-land would do is that going to be empty.

[shetlandpeat]

Some larger power stations have these education centres, I feel it may be a way to grab a little of govenment funding, it will be classed as an educational establishment...

 

But there does seem to be talk of alot of money...

 

2 million for centre and 30,000 pounds for land owners per turbine...

 

I may have read that wrong?