Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[shetlandpeat]

And that is plamming issue because??

[Ghostrider]

And that is plamming issue because??

 

"Plamming"

 

"To sing or speak faster or slower than others, when speaking or singing in a group. Particularly noticable in church.

 

E.g. Would you stop plamming and sing with the rest of us?"

 

http://www.soslang.com/term/plamming

 

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

[paulb]

looking at the charts it was generating roughly 5GW last week nearly the same as nuclear at 7. yes at the moment its calm so low at 150mw. balance out its producing 3 gw

[orkneypaul]

What I would like to see is our share offered on the world market and see how much interest there is, bet it would be zero at the inflated value the SCT (expert consultant) puts on it.

[ArabiaTerra]

What I would like to see is our share offered on the world market and see how much interest there is, bet it would be zero at the inflated value the SCT (expert consultant) puts on it.

And what evidence do you have that the value is inflated?

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

I find it impossible to believe that the reduction in predicted profits to the CT from £23 million to £20 million is purely as a result of the loss of 24 turbines as stated in the press release ("The new figure reflects the reduced earning potential due to the Scottish Government’s decision to delete 24 turbines from the application.") and that the massive transmission charges (£30+ million per year) do not have a bearing on potential profits.

 

No evidence, just a sense that there is an awful lot of over optimistic PR bull being put out there just before the reformed trust is due to meet for the first time. Maybe the onus should be on the developer to show the evidence that backs their claims and at least convince the new trustees.

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/letters/6364-should-i-report-my-cat

 

Are cats and wind turbines comparable in terms of the way they impact on the Whimbrel?

 

This letter suggests that a cat is equivalent to 27.5 wind turbines after it killed 1 whimbrel (given that 101.75 turbines kills 3.7 whimbrel each year... it would actually be nearer 27.84 turbine equivalent for a 103 turbine windfarm).

 

The problem is, and i think this is fair comment, that cats and wind turbines are very different beasts and therefore will affect whimbrel populations quite differently. If, for example, the age of a cat is considered and how many times it has been seen with a dead whimbrel, you get a very different result. An 8 years old cat that has only been seen once by its owner in the possession of a dead whimbrel will have been responsible for the death of 0.125 whimbrel per year. Do the maths on this hypothetical scenario and you find that a cat is actually equivalent to 3.4375 Viking Energy windfarm turbines.

 

I hope this woman gets her facts right before handing herself into the authorities

[Breiwick123]

I have a plan regarding Cats, Whimbrels, Wind Mills etc.

If VE were to attach a tiny little bell to each turbine blade, hay-presto problem solved.

This should be effective for all our feathered friends not just Whimbrels, with perhaps the exception of Budgies who quite enjoy the company of a bell.

[Windfarm apologist]

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/letters/6364-should-i-report-my-cat

 

Are cats and wind turbines comparable in terms of the way they impact on the Whimbrel?

 

This letter suggests that a cat is equivalent to 27.5 wind turbines after it killed 1 whimbrel (given that 101.75 turbines kills 3.7 whimbrel each year... it would actually be nearer 27.84 turbine equivalent for a 103 turbine windfarm).

 

The problem is, and i think this is fair comment, that cats and wind turbines are very different beasts and therefore will affect whimbrel populations quite differently. If, for example, the age of a cat is considered and how many times it has been seen with a dead whimbrel, you get a very different result. An 8 years old cat that has only been seen once by its owner in the possession of a dead whimbrel will have been responsible for the death of 0.125 whimbrel per year. Do the maths on this hypothetical scenario and you find that a cat is actually equivalent to 3.4375 Viking Energy windfarm turbines.

 

I hope this woman gets her facts right before handing herself into the authorities

 

If we only accept actual dead birds as evidence then you accept the windfarm will kill no whimbrel because there has never been a recorded case of a windmill killing whimbrels.

Usually you assess what is likely and include even what you cannot prove.  So what is more likely?

Option 1.  A proven bird-killing cat has suddenly decided after 8 years to catch its first whimbrel?

Or Option 2.  The cat has killed many whimbrels but this is the first the lady has seen?

My cat brings in probably 1 in 20 of the sparrow things it catches.  Even if we guess the lady’s cat is only half as good as mine then thats 10 birds.  I make that up to 34 turbines now.

More importantly, there’s only one proposed windfarm.  How many cats are there?  Lets take your figures then at 3.4 turbines each.  That means we can only allow about 30 cats in the whole of Shetland.

Statistics eh?

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

 

If we only accept actual dead birds as evidence then you accept the windfarm will kill no whimbrel because there has never been a recorded case of a windmill killing whimbrels.

Usually you assess what is likely and include even what you cannot prove.  So what is more likely?

Option 1.  A proven bird-killing cat has suddenly decided after 8 years to catch its first whimbrel?

Or Option 2.  The cat has killed many whimbrels but this is the first the lady has seen?

My cat brings in probably 1 in 20 of the sparrow things it catches.  Even if we guess the lady’s cat is only half as good as mine then thats 10 birds.  I make that up to 34 turbines now.

More importantly, there’s only one proposed windfarm.  How many cats are there?  Lets take your figures then at 3.4 turbines each.  That means we can only allow about 30 cats in the whole of Shetland.

Statistics eh?

 

Yes you're right it doesn't add up. If cats were actually comparable to turbines hypothetical kill rate on whimbrel then we would probably have no whimbrel at all in Shetland as we speak. There are many more than 30 cats at large in Shetland and the whimbrel are still hanging in there. The cat is not to blame. She need not worry. It's the one proposed windfarm we need to worry about.

[Windfarm apologist]

 

If we only accept actual dead birds as evidence then you accept the windfarm will kill no whimbrel because there has never been a recorded case of a windmill killing whimbrels.

Usually you assess what is likely and include even what you cannot prove.  So what is more likely?

Option 1.  A proven bird-killing cat has suddenly decided after 8 years to catch its first whimbrel?

Or Option 2.  The cat has killed many whimbrels but this is the first the lady has seen?

My cat brings in probably 1 in 20 of the sparrow things it catches.  Even if we guess the lady’s cat is only half as good as mine then thats 10 birds.  I make that up to 34 turbines now.

More importantly, there’s only one proposed windfarm.  How many cats are there?  Lets take your figures then at 3.4 turbines each.  That means we can only allow about 30 cats in the whole of Shetland.

Statistics eh?

 

Yes you're right it doesn't add up. If cats were actually comparable to turbines hypothetical kill rate on whimbrel then we would probably have no whimbrel at all in Shetland as we speak. There are many more than 30 cats at large in Shetland and the whimbrel are still hanging in there. The cat is not to blame. She need not worry. It's the one proposed windfarm we need to worry about.

 

Thats poor logic.  If we need to worry because the windfarm will kill 3.7 birds then our cats killing more must also be a problem and one that deserves equal or greater worry.  If we don't need to worry about the cats then its nonsense to worry about something that might (and only might) kill less.   If the windfarm killing birds is bad then anything that kills birds must also be bad. To distinguish only on the grounds of your attitude to the different type of bird-killer is hypocrisy. Hence the lady's concern about being judicially reviewed.

   

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

 

If we only accept actual dead birds as evidence then you accept the windfarm will kill no whimbrel because there has never been a recorded case of a windmill killing whimbrels.

Usually you assess what is likely and include even what you cannot prove.  So what is more likely?

Option 1.  A proven bird-killing cat has suddenly decided after 8 years to catch its first whimbrel?

Or Option 2.  The cat has killed many whimbrels but this is the first the lady has seen?

My cat brings in probably 1 in 20 of the sparrow things it catches.  Even if we guess the lady’s cat is only half as good as mine then thats 10 birds.  I make that up to 34 turbines now.

More importantly, there’s only one proposed windfarm.  How many cats are there?  Lets take your figures then at 3.4 turbines each.  That means we can only allow about 30 cats in the whole of Shetland.

Statistics eh?

 

Yes you're right it doesn't add up. If cats were actually comparable to turbines hypothetical kill rate on whimbrel then we would probably have no whimbrel at all in Shetland as we speak. There are many more than 30 cats at large in Shetland and the whimbrel are still hanging in there. The cat is not to blame. She need not worry. It's the one proposed windfarm we need to worry about.

 

Thats poor logic.  If we need to worry because the windfarm will kill 3.7 birds then our cats killing more must also be a problem and one that deserves equal or greater worry.  If we don't need to worry about the cats then its nonsense to worry about something that might (and only might) kill less.   If the windfarm killing birds is bad then anything that kills birds must also be bad. To distinguish only on the grounds of your attitude to the different type of bird-killer is hypocrisy. Hence the lady's concern about being judicially reviewed.

   

 

I was suggesting that since there are plenty more than the 30 cat threshold you suggest in Shetland, your theory that they kill more whimbrel does not add up. If 30 cats would kill 3.7 then perhaps 1000 cats (not sure what the cat population of Shetland might be) will killing an unsustainable high number, therefore perhaps this might suggest to you that cats predation is not significant because the whimbrel is not extinct. Is that poor logic? No. Hypocrisy? don't be so dim. Does the ES recognise cat predation as a threat to the whimbrel?

[shetlandpeat]

Do the various gulls not also present a danger. As well as pollution either water borne via farmers or sea borne? Perhaps a curfew on cats in the area? Or an outright ban, after all they serve little purpose once out of the house.

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

Do the various gulls not also present a danger. As well as pollution either water borne via farmers or sea borne? Perhaps a curfew on cats in the area? Or an outright ban, after all they serve little purpose once out of the house.

 

Yes. Disturbance during construction leading to exposed eggs and loss due to predation (gulls, skuas etc... I guess). Exposure and chilling is also mentioned as a risk from construction disturbance. No mention of cats. The ES also mentions displacement, loss of habitat and of course collision.