Is the word 'Soothmoother' a bad 'un?

[Hollian]

^^ Gem, how wonderful to have that Shetland connection, enjoy and all the bits dat come wi dat.

 

In general to this thread (and others before), when do you become a Shetlander?

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Anyway, I think a lot o dis has been covered in edder threads.

 

Gem, enjoy that Shetland connection – I think it’s brawly special.

Do his such n bonny avatar, I think I’ll hae to fin a bonny pic o mysel too!

[TYR/RAGNAROK]

"soothmoother" isna racist! whit da hel is wrang wi wis aa, wir tippy-toein aroond aa body incas we offend dem an ir brandid racists! dis is shaetlan fur gods sake! we hae a unique dialect an we shoodna b fayrt tae os hit! if sombodys broon dir "moorit" in wir dialect, if dir black hit wid be "swart" etc.. dus aa dis eens dat tink hits racist kaen sumthin i duna? wis da invention o da norse/norn/sheatlan dialect deliberatly designed an intended tae be racist!..erm NO wid be da answir fur aa you aysily offendid types,

ony word can b osed as a weapon against sombody tae belittle dem no joost racist eens(or whit you deem is racist).

hits a por wurld whin hits shurly racist tae say "baa baa black sheep" in a nursery rhym, or as shaetlan wid say "baa baa swart yowe"

tak me fur example am peerie an fok mak fun o hit aa da tym but do i care?.. NO! am no insecure an am is muckl is i want tae be.

aabody spik shaetlan an os as muckl o da language as you kin(but try an no os dem in racist context).

[Girzie]

Tyr/Ragnarok is spaekin a lokk o sense. Whit ells fokk at dey takk offence sae aisy? Whit aboot wiz aa haein eeknems laek Nortmaven Oily Muggies, Delting Sparrels, Linnasting Hoes an sae on?

[madasaferret]

I read a book written by an Italian immigrant to Autralia back in the 50's.

 

Not only did he have the language barrier to contend with, but the cultural use of language too.

 

He wrote that Autralia was the only place where you best friend was an "old bar steward" and someone whose teeth you were about to puch out was " friend" "Pal" or "mate"

 

Soothmoother is fine applied to someone arriving in Shetland via the Sooth Mooth, but it is in the spirit in which it is said makes all the difference.

[Suzanna]

 

He wrote that Autralia was the only place where you best friend was an "old bar steward" and someone whose teeth you were about to puch out was " friend" "Pal" or "mate".

 

 

My that sounds just like Cumbria, as you say madasaferret, it's HOW it's said, and in Cumbria, that's how a lot of the guys greet pals "Assa Marra, how's yu doin ya old bar steward" and in times of stress, "whit's thee lookin at PAL" before landing the said PAL a smack.

And yes I'm a soothmoother and have never had a problem with being called one.

[Tom]

I use it to jokingly refer to myself sometimes.

 

It really doesn't bother me. I'll admit that people coming up fae sooth are often quite colonial in their attitudes and perhaps local people have a right to feel a bit embittered now and then.

 

Off in the Highlands and Western Isles, people coming in from Glasgow, Edinburgh, or England are often referred to as 'White Settlers' which I find rather amusing, though actually an interesting commentary about how local folk feel.

 

Interestingly, I was at that Energy from the Edge conference last year - and overheard the coach driver refer to the group on the coach as 'fok fae sooth' when the majority of the group were from Greenland, Iceland, and Faroe. Whoops.

[jambo6]

:Longwinded Delurk and Hi:

 

On the notion of Soothmoothers spikin Shetland, I find it such a different tongue that its almost unnatural to do so.

 

I've lived here for nearly 30 years, went to secondary school here, married a Shetlander, have 2 (peerie) bairns who were born here - oddly one seems to flip between Scottish & Shetland, while the other favours English & Shetland (I'm English by birth and accent) - but I still sound pretty much as I did when I came off the boat, though I've lost my regional accent to a degree and sound more generically English.

 

I do use a fair bit of Shetland when I'm alone with my kids, this started out deliberately as I don't want to bastardise their accents too much, and has become more natural the more I do it, but I'd be embarrassed to be caught in the act and I cant really explain that one. Its likely other Sooth folk I've heard over the years who overbaked their efforts and sounded phoney have left me paranoid about doing the same.

 

OTOH though, I spent a few months in Australia when I was in my 20s and came back with a distinct accent, I'm pretty sure if I'd lived there for a couple of years I would have sounded like a dinky-di Aussie, its a natural tongue for someone English to pick up, unlike Shetland which is so much more guttural.

 

The only time I ever seem to spik Shetland naturally is when I'm flightin on da bairns, probably I've picked up the fluidity of this from my wife

 

As to Soothmoother being a derogatory term - Like many have said previously, to me its the context that counts. As an aside, I've always found being called "boy" makes me bristly however its said, and no matter how much I try to rationalise with myself. This is almost definitely due to watching & reading things like Roots when I was a kid where it was an intensely derogatory term implying great superiority on the part of the user.

[man of kent]

I cant see why we cant use the term sooth moothers, it been around for yonks.

Why would/should people take offence at being referred to? It is after all the entry to Lerwick via the Sooth Mooth by which most people used to arrive.

Its not racisit, and who really cares about political correctness anyway?

Lets not get carried away with the thought that its a derogatory term, as far as I'm concerned its just a discription of someone who isnt from god's Islands. After all we cant all be lucky, British by birth, Shetlander by the grace of god -only joking (unless your from Orkney).

 

Carry on speaking the Shetland Dialect, and carry on using Sooth Moothers I say.

[JohanofNess]

I do use a fair bit of Shetland when I'm alone with my kids, this started out deliberately as I don't want to bastardise their accents too much, and has become more natural the more I do it, but I'd be embarrassed to be caught in the act and I cant really explain that one. Its likely other Sooth folk I've heard over the years who overbaked their efforts and sounded phoney have left me paranoid about doing the same.

 

 

I have to admit when I'm back on the isles now I make a conscious effort not to try and speak like a Shetlander, it's not my natural accent anymore and it sounds forced when I do say anything in a Shetland accent. Not that my siblings will appreciate this but both of them who live on the island speak in Shetland accents and because they both lived off the island for a long period when growing up neither of them sound particularly natural now.

 

It's just my opinion but using your own accent shouldn't be a problem, I have heard people not from the island trying to speak like a Shetlander and it normally always sounds forced and unnatural. If folk are small minded enough to care you don't sound like a Shetlander they're probably not worth speaking to anyway.

 

And as for muppets using soothmoother as a negative well in this day and age that kind of narrow mindedness is hardly doing them any favours.

[madasaferret]

My son was born here, and he swaps accent depending on who he is with.

 

His "soothmoother" granfather was giving him and a load of his little friends a lift in the car. He admitted he didn't know what on earth they were all speaking about.

[WineFairy]

My personal opinion is that words are not racist. It's the attitude behind the words that can cause a potential issue and that generally comes down to subjective opinion.

 

Therefore if someone takes offence at something then it's offensive, if they don't, it's not.

 

Regarding accent, I'm a born and bred Shetlander and very proud of my roots. However I have lived south for well over 20 years and my accent comes and goes depending where I am. I was taught from a young age that it is my responsibility to make myself understood to anyone I am talking to and if that requires me to change the way I speak then that's what I do.

[DePooperit]

^ Some say that, but I've certainly heard it used with reference to the way in which someone speaks too.

 

Despite what some might say, there are definite efforts to segregate along dialectical lines. The term 'soothmoother' is often used derogatively and goes hand-in-hand with efforts to make incomers feel awkward for using Shetland words. Taken together these form the basis for a subtext of exclusion which doesn't feel nice to be on the receiving end of.

 

It may not be deliberate or concious, but these attitudes are present in Shetland, and do make people feel unwelcome and uncomfortable.

 

This sounds about right. I suspect that the word originally referred to the Sooth Mooth, but has been subsequently interpreted along dialect lines because of the chance association of the word 'mooth'.

 

That in itself is an interesting development. Particularly interesting is the fact that people from 'da Sooth' should be segregated on dialect lines when increasing numbers of young people, indubitably Shetlanders with Shetland parents on both sides, don't speak it either.

 

More fundamental is the way in which it illustrates Shetland attitudes, in that some Shetlanders have chosen to give dialect an exclusive rather than an inclusive sociological function. I could go on for a long time about what I think the background to this is, but the result can only be that the dialect - and the fact that it is seen as 'dialect' is part of the problem - will die out even sooner, as it comes to be associated with hidebound attitudes.

[DePooperit]

:Longwinded Delurk and Hi:

 

OTOH though, I spent a few months in Australia when I was in my 20s and came back with a distinct accent, I'm pretty sure if I'd lived there for a couple of years I would have sounded like a dinky-di Aussie, its a natural tongue for someone English to pick up, unlike Shetland which is so much more guttural.

 

 

Of all the things I might have chosen to rabbit on about on this thread (all to no effect, because Shetland attitudes to 'dialect' are a function of a complex sociological situation which I certainly can't influence) I must, as a self confessed, self deluded, pseudo-linguistic sad person, pick on this one.

 

It's the first time I've heard the Shetland tongue referred to as 'gutteral', and I'm at a loss to think of a reason. Apart from the 'ch' sound in 'loch' etc, and the glottal stop which is a recent innovation (however you spell that) and which is common to colloquial English throughout the world, I can't think of any reason why Shetland should be perceived as 'gutteral.' In fact (and I mean 'fact', in the sense of scientifically verifiable phonetics) Shetlanders tend to talk in the front of their mouths, which is the opposite of gutteral.

 

Can you give an example of a Shetland pronunciation which you hear as gutteral? Or is 'gutteral' simply a word which, in popular usage, means 'different from the way I speak'?

[DePooperit]

[

 

I couldn't help smiling when I began reading this because the image of Norman Lamont popped into my mind . Slightly different in his case as his mother was from Shetland. He is clearly keen on being considered a Shetlander having taken the title Baron Lamont of Lerwick. I've never heard him having a go at local dialect but I reckon he probably does try. I reckon that would be quite an experience.

 

He'd have to learn to pronounce his own name, first!

[jambo6]

:Longwinded Delurk and Hi:

 

OTOH though, I spent a few months in Australia when I was in my 20s and came back with a distinct accent, I'm pretty sure if I'd lived there for a couple of years I would have sounded like a dinky-di Aussie, its a natural tongue for someone English to pick up, unlike Shetland which is so much more guttural.

 

 

Of all the things I might have chosen to rabbit on about on this thread (all to no effect, because Shetland attitudes to 'dialect' are a function of a complex sociological situation which I certainly can't influence) I must, as a self confessed, self deluded, pseudo-linguistic sad person, pick on this one.

 

It's the first time I've heard the Shetland tongue referred to as 'gutteral', and I'm at a loss to think of a reason. Apart from the 'ch' sound in 'loch' etc, and the glottal stop which is a recent innovation (however you spell that) and which is common to colloquial English throughout the world, I can't think of any reason why Shetland should be perceived as 'gutteral.' In fact (and I mean 'fact', in the sense of scientifically verifiable phonetics) Shetlanders tend to talk in the front of their mouths, which is the opposite of gutteral.

 

Can you give an example of a Shetland pronunciation which you hear as gutteral? Or is 'gutteral' simply a word which, in popular usage, means 'different from the way I speak'?

 

Sorry for the delayed reply, didnt log in for a few days. I picked guttural (sic) to describe the difference in enunciation as its the way my French teacher (who was native to Muckle Roe) used to describe Shetland. She always gave the Shetlanders who had poor spoken French a really hard time, as in her opinion the use of the guttural (rolled) R was almost identical so Shetlanders should find it easy.

 

All of my native speech comes from the front of my mouth, involving little tongue shaping, when speaking French, or Cnapping (Or butchering Shetland, depending on your view) for the amusement of my wife I find my tongue becomes much more invloved as do the muscles toward the middle and rear of my throat. To my ear this is more pronounced in different areas, such as Whalsay and Northmavine, while South Mainland is less so. I didnt mean to say Shetland is literally a guttural dialect as that would come from further back in the throat, but I think I originally just plumped for Shetland being much more guttural than the English dialect I was raised with.

 

Now, I'm by no means a pseudo-linguist so I'm not digging my heels in, I have perhaps used the wrong terminology so feel free to correct me, knowledge is good. Please accept though that it wasnt said merely to signify that Shetland is "different from how I speak" I said it with some reasoning, however puny and incorrect