Instrumental tuition charges

[MJ]

all it will yield is the way its always been before, interested bairns learn off thier peers and relatives. There was a life before all these new ways you know, an integrated n socially bonded community where folk put off the tv now n again n played instruments, took active rolls in the bairns everyday activities n saw them learning if they had talent or desire (mines dont by the way)

 

And it'd probably make no difference around schools like ours where the only choices are guitar, piano and fiddle. But not that easy to find a peer to teach you bassoon. The point about school tuition is it is supposed to make instruments accessible to children who otherwise wouldn't get the opportunity. I feel frustrated that my daughter cannot learn the instrument she wishes because I can't afford the Taxi fares to get her to a tutor. But if I'm paying £19.20/h for school tuition it really does make you think of finding an alternative. I maynot be intitled to free school meals but paying more than 3times what I earn an hour kind of grates. Do the council even pay the teachers that much?

 

£19.20 is calculated as follows

 

40weeks in a school year, taking school closures, staff illness, school events and days the teacher just plain doesn't turn up I guess she gets about 25 lessons a year.

so that's £6.40 per lesson of 20mins (not all children are lucky enough to get one to one tuition remember, but they may get an extra 10mins to compensate for this), so X3 = £19.20/h (or £12.80/h for group tuition - £12.80/h to learn the recorder)

 

on top of this I have to buy the instruments, books and teaching aids. She hasn't got to the exam stage but I take it I'll have to pay for them too.

 

Instrumental tuition at standard grade and higher level - is this also covered by the fees?

[khitajrah]

I'm quite happy to pay £160 for the one to one tuition my eldest gets with the accordian. I feel very fortunate that he has this opportunity to learn this instrument. Quite some time back I posted on Shetlink looking for fiddle tutors but never did find any that I'd be able to get him to, so the fiddle is sitting, unused, in the closet.

[Ghostrider]

I see it as a matter of education principle and good practice. If something is being provided as an integral component of the "free" public education system, it should be exactly that, free, or at most at nominal cost. While £13.33/mnt may be nominal to some, it is not to everyone who is likely to be interested in making use of the service.

 

If end users are going to be expected to pay that level of fees, there's a case to be argued for removing the service from the public education system and letting end users and providers make their own arrangements. The point I'm trying to get at, is, how much of the annual £160.00 each user pays is going to be swallowed up in overheads such as council admin duties relating to providing and running the service, janitorial and cleaning staff costs to maintain the classrooms used in the various school buildings etc etc, and how much of it will actually go to the tutor for their work?

 

The point of a "free" public education system, I've always been led to believe, is that the economics of scale and a central funding source minimised the cost to all. Once you start charging for individual items at cost, or at least at a significant proportion of cost to end users only, you quickly reach the point that end users will get better VFM making their own arrangements with the service provider.

[khitajrah]

^ Providing, of course, you have access to the service provider. If my son wasn't getting tuition via the school he wouldn't be getting any tuition at all since I can't get him in to Lerwick.

[paulb]

just one point our kids get taught during school lession time. i thought it was not permitted to charge for things during that time.

 

if this turns out like the system in england then you will eventually get charged £15 an half hour and then another earner that they have is unless you hire the instrument from them it goes up.

 

so in the end its going to be well over what they are saying now we were paying over £300 a year, we have 4 who have lessions at the moment one doing standard grade music.

 

it may seem hard but were are we to find an extra 600 a year. after all everything else is going up to apartfrom wages.

 

by the way don't assume that the poorer kjds will get free teaching that never happened in england and in fact it was mainly the more wealthy kids who got lessions.

[Styles]

I dont know how its decided who can play instruments now but it used to be a sound test at primary school then the best got instrument tuition.

 

This allways seemed unfair as there were plenty that wanted to learn but were not allowed.

 

I think that the schools should provide music classes but one on one tuition should be paid for by the parents. £160 a year is not really that much if they really want to learn. For those that say they can not afford it they should maybe give up the fags or cut the sky pacakge to do so.

[Longdog]

'Sooth' they used to do a sound test at primary school and then offer the ones that passed it a chance, in theory.

 

In practise the tutors always chose the well turned out kids from 'respectable homes' where they decided the instruments would be looked after.

 

I tried to agrue the case for one of my very keen pupils and even said he could leave the violin in my class to practise in breaks/dinner times but no, for some undefined reason he was turned down even though top of the class at the testing

[judgeknott]

It seems fair that people getting "extras" should pay.

My only concern us that by charging for tuition it may drive down numbers and make the music tutors posts untenable.

 

That would be a shame, and once the posts are gone, then that would mean that music tuition at best would be an out-of-school activity, mainly town centred, putting additional costs on families.

How many less well off parents would be willing to give up fag's, booze and skysports to keep their kids on the fiddle? Not enough I imagine!

[Longdog]

How many less well off parents would be willing to give up fag's, booze and skysports to keep their kids on the fiddle? Not enough I imagine!

 

That is a very unfair and gross generalisation to make.

 

Judgeknott thou shall be renamed....Sir Judgealot

[Guest Anonymous]

^^^ yep , bordering on ignorant, i dont drink or carry on nor have any lifestyle excesses, neither does the bairns mother n theres no way we could afford 3 bairns at £160 per year

[PoolHaddock]

Just found this thread now.

 

Music should be considered just as important a part of bairns education as anything else, after all, civilization wouldn't exist without the arts.

 

It's also interesting to think back to my early secondary school days where I excelled at music, art and design courses. However, I HAD to take compulsory classes in the sciences, French, etc. before I was allowed, timetable permitting, to choose the subjects I wanted to study that related to the arts. This attitude is utterly backward.

 

I'm astounded that such a ruling could come from within Shetland. The idea that musical education is somehow less important than other areas of education is ignorant in the extreme, especially for a community with such a rich musical heritage.

 

I can't recommend watching this video enough:

 

 

(Sorry, canna mind how tae embed a youtube video. Maybe the mods could help?)

 

(*** Mod - happy to oblige ***)

[Marvin]

So a £60,250 saving rather than a £130,000 saving?

 

Then the impact of potential redundancies must be factored into the figures....

 

The actual figure would include savings (as you say) in the wage bill so would be a bit more than £60,000. Are the tutors employed or contracted in?

[tivacudda]

Mind, we are spaekin aboot instrumental tuition, no da class music lessons, where dey also get ta learn ta play instuments. Most folk dunna mind payin fur dir bairns ta get fitbaa, trampolining, swimming an so on, even in quite big groups, an dat's available ta everybody. As Peerie Bryan says, dis needs ta be thought through. Dir folk spaekin as if dey wid make it unavailable ta wis poor sub-species dat live ootwith da central belt o Shetland. I wid certainly raider pay fur wir bairns ta get fiddle etc as ta no get da chance at all.

[Spinner72]

I would assume they are employed, at least part time, as the positions are (or at least have been) advertised in the Times.

 

I'm not surprised, indeed I'm delighted, to see the strenght of feeling against this decision, certainly within the people I meet on a daily basis. Often things can be hot topics on Shetlink but unnoticed outside these walls

 

I was reminded of this today - Angus attacks Govt cuts in arts spending as new cultural strategy is launched.

 

That provoked Mr Angus to retort that Mr Stout was an “example of the investment this council makes in instrumental tuition"

 

Unfotunately the cultural strategy part of the SIC website has dissapeared, but hopefully only due to the recent revamp and not because of this sudden U-turn..

[ll]

Just think- the revenue achieved from over 60 bairns will be able to pay for Florence Grains annual taxi bill !!