Poll - 2019 Shetland MSP by-election

[Davie P]

...nor did any of the news articles mention this at the time if voting. Funny it’s just come to light now.

 

There was plenty of discussion about it at the time, but it tended to be quite dry and academic - I think it just wasn't exciting enough to make headline grabbing news! Nor did it suit any particular party or news organisation - they were all engaged in mobilising and polarising their troops in an effort to gain a clear majority. Adding 'by the way, it's only advisory' to their slogans wouldn't have motivated folk into voting either way!

 

If I was a cynic I'd offer that the Brexiteer politicians and pro-leave media have been aware of the advisory nature of the referendum all along, but sneaked through with a slim majority and tried to rewrite and reframe the rules with an emotive 'will of the people' slant. The Tories trying to implement Article 50 without going through parliament, then being pulled up in the High Court about it, and the Daily Mail declaring the judges as 'Enemies of the people' is a good example.

 

It seems to have worked though. For example, just a few hours ago Urabug called me a '(friends with concerns about Brexit)' who is 'making up stories and stirring the **ite again' when I pointed to the legislation. Folk will believe what they want, particularly if it's backed up by misinformation from the media and less than honest politicians.

 

The alternative is that the media/politicians weren't paying attention when it was discussed in parliament, or hadn't done their legislative homework, which is feasible!

Edited August 10, 2019 by Davie P

[Windwalker]

Yeah it’s just a pity that politicians on all sides of the debate try to play with and twist the truth for their own aims. But unfortunately that politics.

[Davie P]

Yes, it's a fundamental problem with elements of our democracy and media - spectacle and sensation grabs people's attention and there's no way to hold liars to account. They just say whatever they think people want to hear, shrug it off if it's proven to be false and carry on. 

 

I think they best thing we can do is try not to be hoodwinked by the buggers, inform ourselves rather than get swept up in their rhetoric, and have reasoned discussion that aims to find compromise and consensus rather than take sides and throw buns at each other.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Davie P

[Muckle Oxters]

I tink the regional parliaments ir much better in dat respect. Dey dunna bray lik donkeys during discussions (whit is dat aa aboot, Westminster?!), and da politicians seem tae be more focussed on workin oot local solutions dan scorin points aff each idder.

[George.]

^Yes, regional parliaments do do a better job for the people that it looks after. The Scottish Parliament is a prime example, whereas Westminster.......

 

Having said that, the Scottish Parliament is only allowed to do what Westminster allowes it to do it appears, and it appears very clearly. IMHO, that means that Shetland should go indy, and if Shetland cannot for whatever reason, then Scotland must.

 

Go Indy, vote indy.

[Muckle Oxters]

I suppose da Scottish Parliament can only dae whit dey're devolved tae dae through da various 'Scotland Acts', and dat's agreements atween Holyrood and Westminster. Dis is a handy list - https://www.deliveringforscotland.gov.uk/scotland-in-the-uk/devolution/# - It does seem lik a bit o a half-wye-hoose.

 

I'm sure dat mony o da westminster MPs wid rather no hae aa da Scottish MPs comin doon and causin trouble!

[George.]

^I think you're right. 90% of the M.P's down there are about as Shetlandic, as Scottish as Hitler - but they still want to strip us bare, and always have since Jimmy Six cocked it all up.

 

If we remain a part of the U.K we will be bled dry and they won't even have the courtesy to say "Thanks." They will give all the fishing waters away, they'll give the oil away, they'll give it all away - solely for the benefit of Westminster and their Greco-Germanic royalty.

 

Theft that they state is all quite legal. It doesn't matter what hat you wear, theft is still theft.

Edited August 10, 2019 by George.

[Windwalker]

^I think you're right. 90% of the M.P's down there are about as Shetlandic, as Scottish as Hitler - but they still want to strip us bare, and always have since Jimmy Six cocked it all up.

 

If we remain a part of the U.K we will be bled dry and they won't even have the courtesy to say "Thanks." They will give all the fishing waters away, they'll give the oil away, they'll give it all away - solely for the benefit of Westminster and their Greco-Germanic royalty.

 

Theft that they state is all quite legal. It doesn't matter what hat you wear, theft is still theft.

And do you honestly think if the SNP gets in that they and the EU will not bleed us dry just the same?

[George.]

^I don't believe that any political party is perfect. After all, who stuffed us into the E.E.C. without a single spit of democracy. Can't remember his name but Westminster comes to mind. At least the S.N.P. have put their views and their intentions on the table. They may work and they may not, we'll see. Hopefully, rejoining the E.U. is just a politial arguement, fingers crossed.

 

Oh yes, it was Ted Heath that stuffed us into the E.E.C. in 1973 without asking us a single question, but that's Westminsters democracy for you.

[Windwalker]

^I don't believe that any political party is perfect. After all, who stuffed us into the E.E.C. without a single spit of democracy. Can't remember his name but Westminster comes to mind. At least the S.N.P. have put their views and their intentions on the table. They may work and they may not, we'll see. Hopefully, rejoining the E.U. is just a politial arguement, fingers crossed.

 

Oh yes, it was Ted Heath that stuffed us into the E.E.C. in 1973 without asking us a single question, but that's Westminsters democracy for you.

I think your strong aversion to Westminster is blinkering your view of how the SNP will sell us up the river to get what they want. I for one hope Shetland doesn't end up with an SNP MSP. No disrespect to Tom Wills. I’m just totally against Scottish independence. Now, Shetland independence is a different matter.

[Ghostrider]

Too many cooks spoil the broth.....Regional parliaments are fine and well in principle, but when they're just one tier within a ridiculously multi-tier system of government, they're as much part of the problem as part of the solution. We've been 'governed' to an absurd level for the last 20 years and more, Westminster takes orders from Brussels, Edinburgh takes orders from London, Councils take orders from Edinburgh, Community Councils take orders from Councils, and by the time they've all stuck their oars in the result is invariably a pointless unworkable clusterf**k.

 

The whole thing is a horrendous gravy train that costs tax payers a fortune to keep on the rails, money that could be much better spent on a very many other things. We need rid of the majority of it, however it may be done.

 

Shetland isn't enough like Scotland for us to get along, Scotland isn't enough like England for them to get along, Britain isn't enough like Europe to get along......Make of that as you will.

 

Faroe seems to do okay with the deal they have with Denmark, I don't see why a similar deal shouldn't work equally well for Shetland, with whoever rules further south,  and let deciding who that is going to be, be their problem, not ours.

 

Realistically though, I expect we'll just be lumbered with more of the same as we've had for a very long time, the Scots and the English being so pre-occupied bickering between themsselves in their 'union' that neither one knows or cares pretty much damn all about us.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Ghostrider

[Claadehol]

All the Remainers must be incredibly grateful and impressed by Ted Heath and the Tory party for negotiating our entry into Europe in the first place.

They must be impressed with the sheer vision of the Conservative party in the 1970s.

It has been such a magnificent and beneficial thing for the UK.

 

Perhaps the Conservative party have renewed vision for our future, maybe Remainers should support such a visionary party.

 

Just saying!

[George.]

 I’m just totally against Scottish independence. Now, Shetland independence is a different matter.

 

You may well not be for Scottish indipendence, but I would suggest that as Shetland has been part of Scotland for a lot longer, approx 250 years longer, than it's been a part of Britain it's worth considering the benefits that will possibly be gained when we stop having to do what Westminster tell us to do - and when Scotland goes indy, I believe that it will become easier for Shetland to do the same sort of thing.

 

Realistically though, I expect we'll just be lumbered with more of the same as we've had for a very long time, the Scots and the English being so pre-occupied bickering between themsselves in their 'union' that neither one knows or cares pretty much damn all about us.

 

 I think that you're right, almost every part of Britain regularly falls out with every other part, and often for no good reason. Going indy means that there are fewer arguments to have with fewer people. Less people to fall out with so easily. Build Shetland's verion of Hadrion's Wall, running east to west for 500 miles and built 10 miles south of Fair Isle

[Davie P]

All the Remainers must be incredibly grateful and impressed by Ted Heath and the Tory party for negotiating our entry into Europe in the first place.

They must be impressed with the sheer vision of the Conservative party in the 1970s.

It has been such a magnificent and beneficial thing for the UK.

 

Perhaps the Conservative party have renewed vision for our future, maybe Remainers should support such a visionary party.

 

Just saying!

 

I think the Tories did do a good job of negotiating our entry, and joining was partly responsible for the economic rejuvenation of the UK in the late 70s onwards. But since you seem to be rather fond of sarcasm that's probably not the answer you were hoping for.

 

A big difference is that the Tories under Ted Heath did have a vision. If the current Tory government has a vision, they're keeping a tight lid on it. A casual observer may be forgiven for thinking they are just hoping for the best.

[Claadehol]

Rather fond of the odd casual sarcastic remark yourself Davie I see. I suppose we're all hoping for the best.

 

Considering the major problems facing the planet maybe brexit should be a little lower on the list of priorities anyway, and independence even lower.