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SHETLAND says NO to Scottish Independence

scottish independance shetland independance

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112 replies to this topic

#16 Kavi Ugl

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:48 PM

wrong. tf scotland vote to be independent then we will go with them as we are part of scotland. what we do after that is up to us but we dont have an opt out. Why folks are more scared of being ruled by edinburgh than london i don't know neither really give a stuff about us.


It's not wrong and you obviously don't know much about Shetland's history!.

#17 JohanofNess

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:23 PM

wrong. tf scotland vote to be independent then we will go with them as we are part of scotland. what we do after that is up to us but we dont have an opt out. Why folks are more scared of being ruled by edinburgh than london i don't know neither really give a stuff about us.


It's not wrong and you obviously don't know much about Shetland's history!.


How does Shetland manage to stay in the UK then?.

#18 paulb

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 08:10 PM

it hopes scotland votes no.

what happened a hundred or more years ago is history. my family was persecuted from the 15th century untill the early 19th for being old catholics. everyone can look back and find things that were wrongly done to us in history.

however we need to be looking forwards and choosing on what we want to happen not what we feel about the past.

Being English in shetland i honestly feel comfortable either way. what we as shetland residents must not do is just drift into the future. we must choose whats best for our future. whether thats as part of the uk or scotland or even independant. if we miss this chance to choose.

who ever wins the debate will rightly ignore us. however i have no desire to gain freedom and then to join norway that just seems strange.

#19 Kavi Ugl

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

This is not meant in any bad way but thankfully I'm not, and never will be, a "Shetland resident"(I detest that term) - I am a Shetlander.

It's not just about history - it's about the present situation and the fact that it suggests we have little too look forward to under an independant Scotland.

#20 Colin

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:56 PM

It's not just about history - it's about the present situation and the fact that it suggests we have little too look forward to under an independant Scotland.


Agreed but, would you care to try and explain why being Norwegian might be to our advantage?

Seems to me that just swapping one set of 'masters' for another is pretty dumb whichever way you look at it.

#21 werder

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:07 PM

The idea of Shetland becoming a part of Norway seems completely and utterly bizarre and is lost on me. We share very little in the way of culture, language or similar ideologies to Norway (those who point to UHA are completely delusional, do you really think that's what Norway is like these days?!)

That idea really is a non-starter, but where the debate is to be had is about Scottish Independence, as it needs to be answered in 2 years. Having a sensible debate (without calling Salmond Hitler) would, to me, be the way forward. I for one have yet to decide!

#22 MuckleJoannie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:20 PM

I tracked down a fair number of Norwegian online videos from the Norwegian Prime Minister's visit in May. I think one of them had a cursory shot panning over the Jarl Squad, but nearly all of them featured the pipe band.

#23 shetlandpeat

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:33 PM

So Kavi, if Scotland gains independence, it is looking like they would have to re-apply to join the EU, but if Shetland then votes no, they would stay in the EU. Alas, if Shetland were to join with Norway, why, I cannot see, they would have to adopt the EU though not join as Norway is in all, a member of the EU as it pays towards it, adopts all of the policies, it is the only way it can get on.
Also, as, if you want to use history, many Shetlanders family line do not originate from Shetland, how can using history work. It seems a bit of a mess.

#24 unlinkedstudent

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:47 PM

Didn't some old gaffer in the House of Lords put forward the idea that Shetland and Orkney would have the right to opt out if Scotland voted for independence and would still be part of an arrangement of being "British territories" (for Defence, etc.) along the same lines as the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands?

#25 johnmc

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:13 PM

I'm afraid the evidence from Devolution is that life for Shetland under an independant Scotland, whatever political party is in control, would be unbearable.

It's bad enough now but with full unleashed control/power I shudder to think what that would mean for Shetland.


You know only a parochial and small minded person with little, if any, experience of the world (or a false representation) would come out with dirge like this. Unfortunately there is a small section of Shetland society who live in such a Mickey Mouse Disney world, with a wholly falsely manufactured view of themselves and life in general. People who have so little experience of anywhere else that they take such a view and believe that they represent something that is more important than it is. It's small mindeness that places Shetland as the centre of the universe, when in fact we are merely part of it.

Explain how exactly devolution has been so sh1tty for Shetland. How exactly is life "unbearable" under devolution?

Wide sweeping hysterical comments like this really have no place in a mature debate yet as said, there is a small but vocal section of society here, who have this sort of view. The reality is, Shetland under devolution is no worse than a Shetland ruled from London. In fact in my opinion Shetland has in fact done rather well from a devolved Scotland. Things in my mind would be far worse under London, for whom 25,000 people mean very little. At least Edinburgh know we exist.

Let's call this quote as it is. An entirely unmerited, modern derived and ingrained hatred and vitriol for the rest of Scotland borne out of some false victimhood and grievance for issues that don't exist or haven't existed since the mists of time.

So, Shetland really has done so badly under devolution has it? So awful as to be "unbearable"

We have for year on year been voted the best place to live, the safest place to live, the longest living place, one of the highest earning places to live, much of it supported by large Scottish government support for the hard work and ingenuity of those of us who have set up businesses here, in the form of generous financial help.

Only small thinkers and parochial people with little experience of the rest of the country cannot see how well Shetland has done in comparison to most of everywhere else. I know, I've lived there. The things people are writing letters complaining about. The cuts and reductions in services today, may have a point, but these things bear little relation to the realities elsewhere in the country. The type of things we are fighting for today have long been lost elsewhere or in many a case never even existed in the first place but do so here.

This doesn't not mean we should not fight for them but simply that this persecution complex needs a reality check. We have done well.

In all of this Kavi Ugl and their ilk need to just admit they have a unhealthy and unfounded prejudice against the rest of the country based within some misplaced and nasty nationalistic self congratulation of how wonderful their Disney world Shetland is. They need to grow up politically and take along hard look at their underlying xenophobia.

People with such underlying hatred for our fellow country folk have no place in this debate. They are simply negative.

Shetland is a wonderful place and special, but it isn't more so than anywhere else. But I love it. It is an amazing life to live and place to be. We do so much and have so much. It is by no stretch of the imagination unbearable under devolution and is in no way at a disadvantage because of devolution. Silly really.

#26 Gorgonzola Butt-cheese

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:26 AM

Colin, you are entirely correct with you statement copied below

"I can't see what independence would do for Scotland other than give the "ding a lings" a chance to add to the mess we are in already.

The nub of the problem seems to be EU membership and, if what I read elsewhere is correct, Scotland would have to re-apply and that would mean adopting the Euro as our currency and being forced to adopt a whole raft of other measures and controls that we are currently exempt from.
Additionally, it would also mean extra taxes. Salmond & Co have already negotiated some tax raising powers and, if he didn't think he needed them, why is he asking?

Where's the 'independence' in that?

And Kavi is to be commended for his shetland patriotism , we have had it good thanks to getting a small slice of the oil action, but our real renewable industry of fishing has almost been destroyed thanks to corrrupt UK & EU Politicians.

A hell of a lot of wealth and resources have been cleaned out from the isles and it's waters and now we are told filling the landscape with giant wind mills is our only hope for the future ?

Have you been here long Johnmc ?

"

#27 Colin

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:46 AM

Didn't some old gaffer in the House of Lords put forward the idea that Shetland and Orkney would have the right to opt out if Scotland voted for independence and would still be part of an arrangement of being "British territories" (for Defence, etc.) along the same lines as the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands?


It's a long time ago but, I seem to remember Jo Grimmond getting a promise, in Parliament, that if Scotland were to gain indepenence then, Shetland (if it wished) would remain part of the UK.

#28 JAStewart

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:26 AM

The SNP have said at elections that if they got independence, Shetland/Orkney/WI would have a say on their own determination. Now they're kind of regretting that after Tavish made light of it.

It wouldn't make sense for them to say no. "If Scotland can, why not Shetland? Why not Fife?". Saying no would be ridiculous, and saying Yes puts them in an awkward position. It's great.

#29 billycobham

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:44 PM

[***Mod edit - comment removed. Please see T & Cs***]

#30 windsweptislander

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:54 PM

I know all I need to know about the issue.

In 2005 Alex Salmond opened the inter island games in Shetland

'Welcome to Scotland'

'And to this very special part of Scotland'

That is exactly the ammount of recognition Shetland can expect should Salmond have his way, cash cow.

I also heard him on a radio interview, I'm paraphrasing but he said something along the lines of

1st Any group of people have the right of self determination (arguing for a referendum)

When asked if that would apply to Shetland should the yes vote win

2nd Shetland is not a nation and has no right of self determination

No way will I be voting yes, I'm a Shetlander first, British second

Re the Norway question, it's a lovely country, I have friends who live there, if the Norrona was still connecting us I would be there more than mainland Scotland, but I would not wish to be part of Norway, you think we have high taxation?? Look at what they have :shock:





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