Mareel - Cinema & Music Venue

[JustMe]

New Magnie wrote

It's not a kneejerk reaction to say that Access issues (roads, ferries, fixed links, subsidised transport, etc) and development projects should be sorted out before embarking on projects like the CMV for which there is no national or local priority framework or even an adequately researched business case or consultation/engagement robust enough to bear examination.

 

Yes BUT......in terms of local government there is money and money. The reserves would soon vanish if the were used to subsidise Northlink or to fund the public service obligation for Loganair (if we ever get it) so there has to be a clear distinction between the various pots of gold. As I understand it the development costs for the proposed new venue will come from a fund that cannot or at least should not be used for the issues New Magnie mentions.

 

In terms of spending funds that are intended to benefit the people of Shetland on the new venue I am sure that this is exactly the sort of project the council should be involved with although I have some reservations about "gigs" hitting the trade of commercial venues.[/b]

[DavieG]

As for the venue I do wish we could hear more about the positive aspects of the project including cinema and theatrical plans.

 

More actual details of these will become publicly avialable as time goes on, along with other specific details of the project as a whole, if it goes through council this week that is

 

With the actual project completion date being at least 3 - 4 years away, you will appreciate there is of course only an outline programme available to form part of the business plan.

 

This has been built up by identifying different audience profiles etc and looking at existing and projected figures (whether you agree with this or not) and is only there to form the business plan element of the project at the moment. Obviously the actual programmes will be refined over the period and much nearer the time. It will of course be done with public input very much in mind and will certainly not be a closed shop to whoever operates the facility.

 

However re cinema there will be regular films shown on two screens (one fixed in the cinema and most likely another available either in the main auditorium (which can be sectioned off to take account of varying audience sizes) or another suitable 'room'. This will hopefully offer the widest viewing alternatives for audiences while still staying realistic i.e. if a 'blockbuster' is showing for a week or whatever, this will still offer an alternative choice for those who have already been to that one. So if a blockbuster is say a 15 or an 18 you could still show films for young pepole or families on the 2nd screen

 

Over an above this there will be a cinema 'outreach' programme for outlying areas of Shetland (as presently provided by the Film Club - with their full support I may add) and also a range of digital media courses linked to film making etc. Again this still has to be fully refined depending on what's logical / required at the time and taking into account technology advances that will inevitably happen in the interim.

 

Theatre will also form part of the equation - again to be fully defined. Obviously this will have to complement what the Garrison offers at the moment but could offer all sorts of alternatives such as those bigger productions or similar that cannot fit into the Garrison at the moment, theatre 'in the round' or whatever. Then there are of course some productions that simply do not fit into the environment of a 'straight theatre and a flexible space could possibly suit the delivery of such productions much better.

 

Then there's contemporary dance of course - a blossoming and highly popular genre is Shetland at present, that could well benefit to a greater extent with a larger and more flexible structure.

 

Again this means that drama and dance could continue in a theatre type environment when the Garrison is tied up during time such as the Drama Festival or the Pantomime or whatever.

 

Hope this anwers some of your questions, but it will be a case of watch this space in the lead up if the project goes ahead.

[peeriebryan]

Here's some more links to stories on the Shetland Today/Shetland Times website concerning the Cinema/Music Venue

 

 

http://www.shetlandtoday.co.uk/Shetlandtimes/content_details.asp?ContentID=18701

A report on the recent meeting at the Garrison

 

http://www.shetlandtoday.co.uk/Shetlandtimes/content_details.asp?ContentID=18700

Article on the SIC's decision to "push ahead" with the venue

[DavieG]

The importance of the quality and quantity of transport links to peripheral areas is well established nationally - I'd refer you to the Scottish Executive's Rural Poverty and Inclusion Working Group report "Poverty and Social Inclusion in Rural scotland" (2001) which identifies several issues hindering rural development. The principle issue is Access, in the sense of transport and transport infrastructure. Shetland's own structure plan and Local transport strategy recognises transport provision as one of the most crucial factors affecting development within and throughout the isles.

 

Let me just reiterate that at no time did I ever suggest that the CMV project was more important than infrastructural items such as bridges, roads, schools or whatever.

 

The points and 'concerns' I highlighted with regard to just one project - the proposed Bressay bridge - were certainly not my own but those already stated publicly by other groups and individuals, many of whom are residents of Bressay. Indeed a referendum was called for in this particular instance too.

 

The basis of my observation was simply that given the level of public concern recently aimed at that project (ongoing in fact) I was merely interested in the fact that, at no time, had this issue been a subject of interest or concern to the same group of "concerned ratepayers" who are objecting to the CMV. I also did not suggest there was any particular reason for them to have done so, just asking the question.

 

Given that all these project currently sit together on the SIC's Capital Programme they will presumably happen together within the laid down time frame so hopefully this element of the argument is not an issue.

 

Neither am I aware, although I may be wrong, that any major, currently designed and costed capital infrastructural investment for the islands has ever been 'sidelined' to allow the CMV to go ahead. In fact many capital projects have, over a number of years, overtaken the CMV in this respect i.e. Market House to name but one - and no I dont have any objections to that either.

 

Everyone with a capital project for the islands that requires public funding must make the case for that project to be delivered by the SIC (and beyond of course) and it is up to concillors and officials to dictate priorities in order to offer a balanced 'service' across the boards for the islands and you can be certain every project will have its supporters and objectors.

 

As has been well pointed out not all are funded from the same pot, again a structure aimed at providing funding support (from outside the islands as well an in) to deliver a range of services to rural communities such as Shetland

[madcow]

I don't know where people get the idea that more people will use local pubs before and after an event.

 

What? No pub benefits from the Folk Festival, Blues Festival, concerts in Clickimin orwherever, people going to other pubs before the North Star or Posers - please!!!!

 

 

It doesn't happen at the moment. There is no sudden surge in pub numbers when a gig finishes or a concert ends. Why do you think it will be any different if the new venue is built?

 

Sorry totally disagree and I have been there many times. Take just two instances - Proclaimers and Steve Earle. Sure I only went to the Lounge (and took them all with me I hasten to add) but both bars were full to overfolowing and those were on week nights. And there are instances of many smaller concerts having a similar effect.

 

 

 

Also, to answer Davie G's point, it was arranged to show "Brokeback Mountain" (not "Breakback") in February. If you had attended any of the films in February (9th-12) you would have seen it being advertised on the screen before they started.

 

Not disagreeing but the fact is it was only shown here two weeks ago - still fine in my personal opinion. Hopefully not a problem seeing as everyone is airing their's in this context.

 

I'm not disputing that there will, of course, be more people out in the pubs following a big-name gig or during a festival.

 

But I'm not talking about these type of events. I'm talking about all the other ones which will be on the rest of the year. There is currently no surge of customers in the pub after a normal weeknight concert in the Garrison - I do not envisage this changing with the building of a new venue.

 

Take the shows on at the Garrison last week. Three audiences of over 240 people each night. Did anyone notice a huge increase in the pub at 10pm those nights? No, you wouldn't have done, because the majority of the people got in their cars and drove away home.

 

What makes you think building a new venue will increase the number of people using the pubs in the town? I just can't see it.

[NewMagnie]

 

Let me just reiterate that at no time did I ever suggest that the CMV project was more important than infrastructural items such as bridges, roads, schools or whatever.

 

I'm not trying to infer that you did. I'm merely pointing out that this community has to get its priorities in order. My comments are equally directed at the politicians you refer to - on the offchance you'll get any sense out of them.

 

The processes that lead to capital expenditure on projects of dubious worth are as much to blame as those projects themselves.

[NewMagnie]

....more so, in fact.

[peeriebryan]

Hey NewMagnie. Your

formatting etc doesn't seem to be working properly. It may be because you've got the "Disable BBCode in this post" checkbox ticked. This checkbox appears under the text entry when you're writing a reply

 

The BBCode is the stuff that lets you use quotes, bold text, italics etc

[NewMagnie]

Cheers Bryan - I'll have a look.

[DavieG]

But I'm not talking about these type of events. I'm talking about all the other ones which will be on the rest of the year. There is currently no surge of customers in the pub after a normal weeknight concert in the Garrison - I do not envisage this changing with the building of a new venue.

 

Take the shows on at the Garrison last week. Three audiences of over 240 people each night. Did anyone notice a huge increase in the pub at 10pm those nights? No, you wouldn't have done, because the majority of the people got in their cars and drove away home.

 

What makes you think building a new venue will increase the number of people using the pubs in the town? I just can't see it.

 

I'm sure it will be a case of swings and roundabouts on this one and in truth who knows for sure. Its just a case of going on the existing general evidence from Lerwick, what people tell us they will do in the future (vague I know but we have to go on something) and other places in general i.e. Orkney, suggesting that although there inevitably will be some displacement , nobody is denying that, there will be benefits too, rest assured. Perhaps taking some form of new appraoch and also working in partnership with the pubs, on occasions at least, and if they want to, might work both ways, to some extent at least.

 

It will, as you must well know from your own knowledge, also depend on the kind of programme and audience profile on a specific night, not to mention weekends etc i.e. classical concerts (not really pub goers) more mature audiences (usually the same) weekday gigs generally less pub usage - other events very different.

 

I think simply looking at one or so very similar events all during the same weeknights does not paint a general picture which is all anyone can reasonably go on. For a realistic picture you would need to look at the broader spectrum over a much wider period. And did you check all the pubs?

 

Good audience numbers though over three nights. If it could have happened on one or less nights in a larger space and assuming it would still have attracted equatable attendances, thereby seriously cutting overheads i.e. fees, theatre wages, production costs, artist accommodation, subsistence etc imagine the increased profits - less need for public subsidy I would guess. I'm probably starting to sound pedantic here but this seems to have been a regular element of your particular thread.

 

To be honest providng passing trade to the pubs unfortunately cannot be a cornerstone of this particuarl development. All we are saying to them is it wont necessarily be lose lose all the time - swings and roundabouts as I said. They will still get their trade plus hopefully some of the venues too as people inevitably move around the town.

 

Who really knows how things will really be three years from now - things change - equally we cannot sit by and wait to see what happens or we will wait forever.

 

Surely trying to make things happen in the best possible environment to meet the needs of the time (see Clickimin Centre yet again), rather than forever maintaining things exactly as they are ad infinitum is worthy of consideration? And sadly the only true way is up or why bother.

 

Ensuring we continually provide people with a good reason to go out especially if things are, as many of you suggest, slowing down, is surely being proactive. Or should we wait till all other alternatives die off or seriously slow down first before we try to act and ask "now what"?

 

And as to the alleged lack of people with money to spend in future. Many of our exsiting pubs, clubs etc have lived through tougher times and they are still here. People will still want a social life (its usually the last to go if other areas are anything to go by), its just they might start to get more choosey if the level and range of service doesnt adapt to meet their needs or the times, especially when our existing "I'm happy" audiences are no longer around.

 

Lack of money is not always the reason people chose to stay in you must admit - quality of service has a big part ot play.

[JustMe]

DavieG wrote

t will, as you must well know from your own knowledge, also depend on the kind of programme and audience profile on a specific night, not to mention weekends etc i.e. classical concerts (not really pub goers) more mature audiences (usually the same) weekday gigs generally less pub usage - other events very different.

 

Or we could turn this around and say that none of the local pubs provide the sort of ambience that "mature" audiences might wish to use.

[Quarffie]

Ditch the combined cinema/music venue it will never pay. Continue to use existing venue to host music, and build something different instead, like a 2 or 3 lane 10 pin bowling alley. Revamp the Garrison and bring some some films aimed at grown ups, not the current policy which seems to be squarely aimed at 12 year olds.

 

[Marvin]

I've not got the details but the report went through Council yesterday. So it looks like the CMV is going to get built.

 

Also, has anybody seen a petition with any more than a couple of names on it?

[Styles]

Also, has anybody seen a petition with any more than a couple of names on it?

 

Were they Bart Simpson and Mickey mouse?

[dB]

I've not got the details but the report went through Council yesterday. So it looks like the CMV is going to get built.

 

Also, has anybody seen a petition with any more than a couple of names on it?

 

 

 

Apathy rules.

 

I guess most people are resigned to the council doing what they want.

 

All I hope is they don't make an ass of it (see Library, Museum etc etc)