Mareel - Cinema & Music Venue

[Frankie]

I don't go to the Garrison to watch films but I'm sure I'll go to the new Cinema and Music Venue, and many people I've spoken to say the same.

 

 

That's your right of course but can I ask why?

 

I am not sure how I go about going to watch a film at the Garrison. Do you have to buy a ticket before hand, or can you just decide on the night that you would like to go to watch a film and turn up at the door ?

 

So, it's not totally to do with the venue, but more to do with my perception of the lack of user friendliness of the procedure involved in going there.

[DavieG]

Actually, I'm not sure that you have. I haven't looked at the Ron Inglis report since 2002 and to be fair, I sat and listened to his presentation rather than pore over the thing in what you might call compulsive detail. What I do remember though is that it made unreasonable assumptions about uptake and demonstrated a poor understanding of how Shetland's geography and transport infrastructure would support the CMV.

 

Well potential uptake has been revisited a number of times since then, most recently for the current business plan and evaluated by a wide range of 'experts' in such matters, including a large contingent from the National Lottery. Much of this is based on current figures and experience, with a variety of percentage increases built in to allow for some envisaged growth due to the clear potential for this and a wider number and range of audiences attending a facility of this kind rather than the existing provision - See the growth factors of local venues such as the Clickimin Centre and rural leisure centres and also those in roughly similar facilities and locations on the mainland. They also of course take into account a whole new potential programme not being currently delivered via existing facilities and uptake in rural areas.

 

As to transport I'm not entirely sure what you mean about the geography, taking into account the improved transport links that now exist to at least some of the northern isles and other rural areas introduced since then. All I'm saying here I suppose is that from what I can see things have only improved somewhat in that respect. Then of course there is the "if you can't come to us" element of the plan in terms of rural and outreach provision.

 

Did you highlight these concerns to Ron at that time?

 

I'm glad you're with me on the feasibility front. I'm not happy that anyone has established whether there's a realistic market and I'd love to see some credible research done on that.

 

I have to disagree here as I, and many others, believe this is exactly what has been done, as far as is possible anyway with a completely new venture and approach. The market in Shetland was also seen as being potentially more vibrant from both a musical and audience related perspective than many other similar areas throughout Scotland.

 

As far as desirable goes - its very simple. If the majority of the population don't want to see money spent on this then there opinion has to be taken heed of. It's not simply a case of naysaying, there seems to be a body of opinion that many of the vaunted positive outcomes of this project could be more realistically achieved through expenditure on rather more prosaic projects.

 

I'm sure this also could also be the case for any number of projects - capital or otherwise.

[shetlander]

Okay, facts first. The new cinema and music venue is budgeted to cost 7.1 million, with 2.2 million of that coming from the lottery fund, leaving £4.9 million for the council to pay for.

 

The council decided a couple of years ago to spend some of the reserve fund on the venue. The reserve fund is council reserves that are invested, earn millions in interest and are there to be spent on things like facilities for the people of Shetland. I look on it as rainy day money.

 

So, the money for the building of the venue comes from a different pot of money than the one that pays for teachers or care staff for old folks homes or the essy cart.

 

Running costs - It has not yet been decided how exactly the cinema and music venue will be run, but it will be somewhere under the auspices of the Charitable Trust.

 

The Charitable Trust administers money that comes originally from the Sullom Voe Oil Terminal site negotiations. That money is also invested, earns interest and provides lots of very important services for the people of Shetland, like the Amenity Trust, The Recreational Trust (all those leisure centres and swimming pools) and the Arts Trust. This money is NOT COUNCIL MONEY. It can't be spent on teachers or meals on wheels or other core council services.

 

The present economic climate in Shetland not healthy - the fishing is knackered, the oil industry is in rapid decline and even with the building boom, there are still building companies going bankrupt. New industries and businesses and employment opportunities need to be created. Graduates and skilled workers need to be attracted to Shetland to work, train people and develop businesses.

 

The proposed cinema and music venue will contribute to that economic development through helping population retention, by providing training and learning opportunities to everyone throughout Shetland and by providing a professional stage for musicians, performers, song-writers, engineers, producers, film-makers, animation and CGI artists, etc. With the right equipment and techology, Shetland musicians will be able to play live to the whole world via the web & on radio, and the rest of the world will be able to see, hear and work with local musicians and film-makers.

 

The dozens of feasibility studies that have been written over the years all recognise that, put simply, the cinema and music venue can cover their own costs, until the outreach services are taken into account. These services, bringing film and a range of music events to everyone from pensioners in Unst to Whalsay pre-school to Jazz afficionados in North Mavine to fans of old movies in Sandwick, are an essential part of the service. The cinema and music venue is intended to be for everyone in Shetland, not just Lerwick and not just pub-age dance music fans.

 

Partnerships with organisations like the Shetland College will also make studying music related courses in Shetland possible.

 

It is less than 15 years ago that the first Shetland bands started releasing CDs. It does not take much imagination to see the possibilities in film-making, music videos & DVDs, and even feature film. Bear in mind that the Shetland music industry was valued at £6 million pounds a couple of years ago. Imagine what it could be worth in the future!

 

Personally, I can't wait to see hundreds of peerie bairns at the touring Balamory musical - it would pack the place for days. Or the all-night back-to-back showing of Alien, Aliens and Alien3. And instead of Shetlanders going clubbing in Orkney, we might even get a few Orkadians coming to Shetland for the weekend to clutter up the pubs and go to the venue.

 

Finally, when the cinema and music venue opens in three and a half years time, all the Lerwick pubs, late night food outlets and taxis will be busier than ever so instead of whinging, they should realise that it is an opportunity for them to make even more money.

 

Some informative points Jo. Maybe you (or anyone for that matter) can answer something that’s just come to mind. Last year (or was it the year before) the Council decided to axe the Welfare Trust, I understand to save on duplicating the administration costs of running some care services/facilities under the banner of the Council and others being run under the wing of the Welfare Trust - a sensible enough idea on the face of it. In effect though, this transferred the running costs of the likes of the rural Care Centres to the Council from the Charitable Trust funded Welfare Trust. The questions I have are –

 

1. What was the incentive of doing this if the effect was to add to the Council’s running costs (which as we all know they are trying to cut) whilst taking these away from the day to day costs of the Charitable Trust (the costs of which don’t seem to matter as long as the money is coming from the likes of Council investments/revenue raised from Sullom Voe)?

 

2. If there was a need to save money by reducing Charitable Trust expenditure at that time, is that not the case now, given that we are looking at spending £80,000 a year to keep afloat the new CMV? What happens if a decision is made to abolish the new Arts Trust at some point in the future to save money and transfer the likes of the running of the CMV to the Council? Will the priority then be to fund it or schools, care services or whatever?

 

3. Wouldn’t it have made sense to keep the provision of Care Services under the auspices of the Welfare Trust (and in fact transfer the management of all of Shetland’s care services to them)? Now that service is having to jostle for money alongside schools, ferries etc on one hand whilst we are looking at committing £80,000 a year towards the new CMV on another.

 

4. A few years ago I seem to remember the Council speaking about putting up facility charges in the Swimming Pools/Leisure Centres to help overcome its budget deficit. If this is funded by the Recreational Trust and not the Council directly, what would the benefit of this have been?

 

To me, these issues raise questions as to whether Charitable Trust and Council funded services are as discreetly different as some folk seem to be suggesting.

[DavieG]

Yes imagine ????????

 

Well any better thoughts in that respect? If, as you say, in this post you "love Shetland music" why take such a derogatory attitude? You may think its being smart to be facitious in this respect dB but without any real cash inputs or true support of any kind over the years, well ever really, Shetland music is still purported to be annually worth £2 directly to the local economy and when you take everything else into consideration its worth around £6 - hardly peanuts. To suggest that it cant grow still further is bizarre or you're a better economist than those who believe otherwise.

 

I should of course have said £2m and £6m.

[dB]

I don't go to the Garrison to watch films but I'm sure I'll go to the new Cinema and Music Venue, and many people I've spoken to say the same.

 

 

That's your right of course but can I ask why?

 

I am not sure how I go about going to watch a film at the Garrison. Do you have to buy a ticket before hand, or can you just decide on the night that you would like to go to watch a film and turn up at the door ?

 

So, it's not totally to do with the venue, but more to do with my perception of the lack of user friendliness of the procedure involved in going there.

 

 

Islesburgh advertise the films in the Shetland Times at, I would imagine, at fair cost. Phone them on Lerwick 692114 for details.

As far as I know you can buy tickets before the films at Islesburgh, and the earlier you go the more choice of where to sit you'll get. I'm not sure how long beforehand tickets go on sale but I'm sure they can tell you. I have seen people buy tickets on the door just before the film starts which is ok if

a/ it's not a sell-out and

b/ you're not too bothered where you sit.

 

I've also been told Islesburgh operate a mailing list for forthcoming Garrison events. Again I have no details but it must be a benefit to regulars.

 

The Dolby sound system is fantastic and apart from the seats (which aren't as bad as some people think) and the rake of the floor the Garrison is as good as we need.

 

I'm not sure why you perceive the Garrison as unfriendly. I find the opposite whenever I go.

[Njugle]

Just a little technical interlude, most of the postings on this thread are using quotes to great and coherent effect. Anyone who is not entirely comfortable or familiar with how to do this can find out more in the "BB Code Guide" by following this link:

 

How to use quotes in postings

 

Another great thing that is being admirably demonstrated is the use of quoting and answering individual points, rather than the whole previous post. This makes for a far more readable discussion, and saves a lot of scrolling.

 

Back to the debate!......

[Frankie]

It's the procedure involved in actually getting a ticket which is not user friendly.

 

When I go to a cinema South it is usually not planned far ahead at all, I just turn up and pay and watch.

 

A lot of people, I would think say, 'What will we do tonight ? Let's go to the pictures !' It seems with the Garrison you cannot do that.

[JustMe]

I am not sure how I go about going to watch a film at the Garrison. Do you have to buy a ticket before hand, or can you just decide on the night that you would like to go to watch a film and turn up at the door ?

 

Same with me which is crazy as I buy the Shetland Times every week, I can walk to Islesburgh in 5mins and the same to the garrison. Just saying this to show what level of inertia the new venue would have to cope with from this potential user.

[dB]

It's the procedure involved in actually getting a ticket which is not user friendly. A lot of people, I would think say, 'What will we do tonight ? Let's go to the pictures !' It seems with the Garrison you cannot do that.

 

 

I have seen people buy tickets on the door just before the film starts

Which bit of my previous quote is unclear ? Just because the facility is in place to purchase tickets a few days before the event doesn't stop you from turning up 5 minutes before the event, paying your money and going in.

I would argue that the Garrison is MORE user friendly than most places by offering this. If you're quick off the mark you can get the seat you prefer, whether it's an aisle seat or a back seat or a seat near the front. If you decide to go at the last minute you can do that too, most times.

This is a great help to people who have a fair distance to travel. They know that they're going to get into whatever it is they've bought tickets for.

And, how do you know that the new CMV won't operate the same system? Your argument for not using one but definately using the other strikes me as being not too well thought out.

[Frankie]

And, how do you know that the new CMV won't operate the same system? Your argument for not using one but definately using the other strikes me as being not too well thought out.

 

It's not an argument for not using it. It's the reason I haven't used it in the past.

But now that you have pointed out to me that I will be able to turn up 5 mins before a film and get in, I may well be at the Garrison watching a film very soon.

[Frankie]

I see the poll is swinging towards the new venue.

Is Davie G. winning people over with his posts ?

[swaabie]

Davy is winning me ower even thoug i was staunchly against it for on going cost reasons, which are still dere.

 

The man should get intae politics, i doot he wid be the first sheltie prime minister.

[jim-jam]

Davy is winning me ower even thoug i was staunchly against it for on going cost reasons, which are still dere.

 

The man should get intae politics, i doot he wid be the first sheltie prime minister.

I think the reason Davie (and Marvin) is winning people over is because he is honest about his interests in the project

 

I wonder how many other people contributing to this thread have similair interests in the debate. Any body willing to declare if they have connections with the CMV? There seems to be a few people with 'inside knowledge' contributing to this thread

 

I'm not for a second claiming that everyone should declare their interests in public, but maybe it would bolster their point of view if people understood their positions better

 

P.S. Personnaly, I am in no way connected to the CMV proposal

[swaabie]

Davy is winning me ower even thoug i was staunchly against it for on going cost reasons, which are still dere.

 

The man should get intae politics, i doot he wid be the first sheltie prime minister.

I think the reason Davie (and Marvin) is winning people over is because he is honest about his interests in the project

 

No it's no dat at all, it's because he can answer every question put to him and doesna hae a bad wird tae say aboot ony o it.

Very little new info has come oot and nithin much has changed through this debate, but lots o enthusiasm is the only thing that will stop this venue turning intae anidder white elephant, and dat's what davy pits across.

An as davy has said himself, he doesna hae onything directly to gain fae da venue, which is anidder pro point in his favour.

[DavieG]

Davy is winning me ower even thoug i was staunchly against it for on going cost reasons, which are still dere.

 

The man should get intae politics, i doot he wid be the first sheltie prime minister.

 

Cheers Swaabie, but this job is bad enough. Its interesting to see that these costs, and the related business plan, are such as issue in this instance.

 

For me the thought of £80,000 for the full range of development related activities and the potential / addtional musical, cultural, economic and social benefits are not too bad, but there you go that's only my opinion and thankfully a lot more people besides whatever others would have us believe.

 

It could be argued (as Jo did yesterday) that its only the (initially) non-commercial add on's such as training and education related programmes, outreach activity etc that have made the thing 'unviable' in purely commercial terms in the first instance, but form me personally they are the most important element. We hope of course that some of this 'investment' will provide wider returns to the community in the future, including a still higher profile for the islands in the international marketplace.

 

And as I have said some of this initial 'cost' to the community (whichever purse it really comes out of) could very well be further eroded by internal savings (such as my job and budget) and outside investments in a wide ranging programme anyway. And remember as of last Saturday the Garrison came under the control of the new Arts agency and so there will not be any risk of conflit there.

 

Of course the 'service' that Islesburgh provided up to the first of April did not come for free or cover itself commercially either. Islesburgh costs Shetland (including the Garrison) £1m per annum and the SRT costs us £2.4 per annum and I dont hear anyone decrying that 'investment' or screaming "foul" at their business plans. Equally the 'development' benefits of say the CC (and other centres - look at Whalsay for instance) are now clearly there for everyone to see (health and fitness, national and international athletes, winning football teams,a place on the sporting map of the UK etc)

 

 

 

Also lets remember the outcry when the council spent around £5m on capital investments for the Island Games and well over £1m on the revenue costs for same. Outcry at the start - now one of the greatest things ever to have taken place in Shetland. Heavens there was hardly a whisper when they went over-budget by around £300,000.

 

To be honest £80,000 is still a fair bit of money I agree but pales into insignificance in relation to all the above, especially with regard to revenue savings in other areas that will be made and potential outward investment opportunities that may come our way if the new facility comes about.