Death Penalty

[KOYAANISQATSI]

I agreed to nothing and thoroughly contest any contention to the contrary.

[Malachy]

I have tae disagree, laet da poor b//gers rot, an den stamp apu dem wi a muckle fit

 

Hmm, this is the second time in this thread that George Orwell has been required.

 

If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.

[Spinner72]

Tried tae avoid gettin involved ageen but canna resist..

 

Peerie flame-warry bits removed

 

Basically, where I think this debate has gone wrong is at my attempt to demonstrate that you don't murder folks and steal their stuff is not because of the punishment, but because of your own internal, moral compass.

 

Exactly. As a supported of the death penalty in appropriate cases (as i've already posted) the "deterrent" argument so many people use always makes me cringe.

 

People so mentally unbalanced as to commit these crimes will not be "put off" by anything. Yes there is clear imbalance in the judical system at all levels but that is not the subject here.

 

It is precisely my point that ones opinion of the severity of the punishment isn't as closely linked to the likelihood that one will commit a crime as you seem to be suggesting that it is. Thinking prisons are soft doesn't make one a murderer; contrarywise, thinking prisons are tough doesn't stop a murderer acting on their desires.

 

This is the point in these debates where i chip in the fact that this verifies the suitability of the death penalty, especially if i were to take liberty with your last sentence and it's implication that locking murderers up for 20 years wont change what they are.

 

As said before, the death penalty doesn't exist to deter, or as revenge, but as a safe and sure way to remove these people from society.

 

It's not about justice for those who have been affected, but for those who may be..

[Evil Inky]

^ This may hold true for serial-killer types, who are driven to repeatedly kill strangers, and will remain a danger to the public. However, consider the hypothetical case of a man who on finding his wife in bed with his father beats them both to death in a rage. Yes, he should be punished, but is he really likely to kill again after being released from prison ?

 

(*** mod edit - excess quoting removed ***)

[Spinner72]

No, but then thats not the kind of crime i'm referring to.

 

Too lazy to type it out again, have a look back to my other post

[Fjool]

As said before, the death penalty doesn't exist to deter, or as revenge, but as a safe and sure way to remove these people from society.

Is it not safer to remove people semi-permanently just in case we wish to reverse the decision? It certainly wouldn't be unusual to discover that the wrong decision has been made. Why do you feel execution is any safer than life in prison?

 

I know you realise this already but, for clarity, my 'last sentence' (as referred to previously) doesn't say that I think people can never be rehabilitated; only that I think, at the point of the crime, it's not going to alter the 'decision' to commit it. All of the links and resources I provided earlier strongly suggest that be people can be rehabilitated, and I believe that, in some cases at least, this is true. How we tell the difference between those who cannot and those who can, I'm not sure though.

 

Best to err on the side of caution where irreversible decisions such as this are concerned.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

No, but then thats not the kind of crime i'm referring to.

You place great faith in the cops and courts getting the proper charge in relation to the crime every time, I would be wary about placing such trust in them.

[Para Handy]

Stuff the deterrent" rubbish If the Terrorist or Paedophile or Murderer. Is put to death. That is one less that gets released again to do it again. There is to much patting them on the head ect . If you lock them up they should stay locked up. No parole full stop. None of these old duffers, dressing up in silly clothes and sitting on the appeals bench. If you put a horse down for braking a leg, or a dog because it is now too old. I can’t see why it can’t apply to criminals as well

[humptygrumpty]

 

What I would like to see is criminals doing hard labour - breaking rocks or something. Prison is far too comfortable for them, the only people being truly punished is the tax payer.

 

Pit dem in da scord quarry breakin 20 ton stanes inta 12mm chips wi a great muckle rubber hammer.

[Spinner72]

No, but then thats not the kind of crime i'm referring to.

You place great faith in the cops and courts getting the proper charge in relation to the crime every time, I would be wary about placing such trust in them.

 

I place no faith in them whatsomever.

 

Indeed it is the fact they blatantly hardly ever get it right that spurs on my support of this issue.

 

As i said, i am referring to people who are "caught" by irrefutable evidence (such as videoing themselves at it etc).

[Evil Inky]

You place great faith in the cops and courts getting the proper charge in relation to the crime every time, I would be wary about placing such trust in them.

 

I place no faith in them whatsomever.

 

Indeed it is the fact they blatantly hardly ever get it right that spurs on my support of this issue.

 

To be honest, if I was going to be brought before an incompetent judge, I'd rather he or she didn't have the power to sentence me to death. But that's just me.

[sheepshagger]

having just watched the news where two pieces of filth have been sentenced to 5 years each for torturing and murdering a 10 month old baby I am all for hanging, frying, garoting whatever means is most painfull, or even better all of the above, with a disembowling before they draw their last breath. I know some will worry that the wrong person may be convicted but as democratic countries that have the death penalty also have a very thorough appeals proccess it is not something that worries me.

what sort of deterant is five years in jail for scum like this, they will serve no more than 3 years then be free to breed again, the very least that should happen if they are going to be allowed to live should be castration without annesthetic

The social work were aware of the childs situation but did nothing to intervene, don't want to upset the scumbags or infringe their human rights now do we.

there is no doubt of their guilt so hang the scum from the nearest tree.

In the same news program a man was jailed for life for killing a bystander while carrying out a robbery, personaly I would of pulled the lever on the trap door myself but at least it wasn't as pathetic as the sentence handed out to the child murderers.

 

I posted this on a new forum but fjool thought I was being a bit strong in my language/sentements, and JA god love him thinks counseling is the way forward with scum like this. but as the Politicaly Correct social worker types were aware of the situation and did the counceling bit, It did not work, it will not work and we should not be wasting our time trying. And JA a publicly sanctioned execution is not murder, if a rottwieler bit a child the dog would be put down how can this be right when the dog has no morals, it can not reason right from wrong yet we will take its life.

while a human who can reason right from wrong and knows full well that killing is wrong gets off with a paltry five years.

Even when the sentence is life in prison it very rarely means life in prison 12 years is the average served in a life setence, most serve a lot less. There is no deterent and no real punishment.

The law is an ass, an those that think councilling is the answer are also asses.

[Njugle]

Perhaps you would be happier in the middle eastern or african states where such solutions would be acceptable SS.

 

Anyway, strongly emotive posts like this are more akin to an emotional outburst than a discussion as you make it quite clear that you have no interest in anyone elses opinion and that only your violent solution is correct and further seek to put words in other peoples mouths. I don't think JA suggested counselling, and Fjool was quite correct that your previous post was a bit strong. If you feel so strongly about it perhaps you should also call the social work department involved and get it off your chest.

 

If you seek to discuss the matter in any shape or form then please do carry on, in a civillised fashion.

[JAStewart]

The executioner is a murderer.

 

Murder - "to commit murder."

 

To kill.

 

Executioner is a murderer.

[sheepshagger]

Well njugle I was under the impression that a forum was the right place to get things of your chest and emotive subjects are what most folk feel strongly about. Maybe you wish us to keep the discussions to what colour of curtains go with a beige suite.

I am always interested in other folks opinions I may feel they are bloody fools but hey that is only my opinion.

The dig that you think I would be happier in the Middle East or Africa well let me say this in Iran a child murderer was convicted and sentenced to death. The families of all the children he had raped and murdered all got to take part in the execution first his hands and feet were chopped off, he was castrated, stabbed and beaten then hoisted slowly into the air on a crane by his neck. No one watching this execution would be in any doubt what fate would await them if they were to commit the same vile offences.

In this country he could look forward to 3 meals a day, cable television, free drugs, social workers soothing them when they get upset and the prospect that once they have convinced the liberal muppets that they are all cured they will be released to satisfy their vile urges once more. I hate to say it but maybe the head down ass up lot have more wit than us when it comes to this.

The death penalty is the final solution to be used when the perpetrator has given up their rights by the crime they have committed, you take a life for no good reason then your life is forfeit. now we get into what is good reason, self defence, defence of another, or a law unique to the Middle East hot blood (as opposed to cold blooded calculated murder, hot blood would be when you come accross some one killing a member of your family you chase them down and kill them on the spot perfectly reasonable if you ask me.)

 

I wonder JA would you feel the same if it was a member of your family that was raped and murdered, would you be so keen to let them have counceling then, I doubt it you got a bit heated when I brought up Andrews distance from shore while transiting Africa.

It is easy to be liberal when it does not affect you directly

By your reasoning JA a soldier is a murderer even in defence of his homeland