Infiltrator Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Fact we subsidise the UK not the other way around as they would have you believe. Would you care to expand - how is this a fact? presumably you can show us some numbers to prove this. If Shetland became independant, could the local taxes continue to employ 25% of the working population as the council currently does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 If Shetland became independant, could the local taxes continue to employ 25% of the working population as the council currently does?I'm not sure whether they could, but I can assure you they would. Over-government is one of the pitfalls Shetland would have to negotiate in the move to independence, as I could imagine every local community from Scalloway to Fair Isle lobbying for its own council. Here in the Isle of Man, 80,000 people are served by the world's only tricameral parliament (comprising 24 directly elected, eight indirectly elected and three ex officio members) and no fewer than twenty-four separate local authorities, each with between five and eighteen elected members. Each of those authorities has its own workforce, and some of the salaries are staggering: when Braddan Council (serving a population of 3500) parted company with its Clerk, it was revealed that he had been earning £85,000 per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trow87 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Fact we subsidise the UK not the other way around as they would have you believe. is du sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 i'm sooth ee noo, an am haed plenty o folk comin up t me since dat martin clunes programme aksin if we aa support stuarts cause, an every time i'm haed t strongly deny ony links atween him an da wishes o da majority o shetland folk.It seems that Mr Clunes has generally made himself quite unpopular with island residents as a result of this series. Following his visit to the Isle of Man, during which our Chief Minister kindly took a day out of his busy schedule to meet him and show him around, Clunes has been telling everyone who will listen that he loathed the island's people and never wishes to return. Personally, I had a fair idea of the programme's editorial direction when I saw last Sunday's show, and noticed that it featured Unst and Forvik rather than Lerwick or Scalloway. This impression is confirmed by the trailer I've just seen for next week's episode, billing the Isle of Man as "Britain's strangest island" and showing Clunes with Manx cats and some blokes in quasi-mediaeval costumes performing some kind of bizarre ritual. Make no mistake - this show is not a serious study of island life around Britain. It's a cabinet of island curiosities, enabling slack-jawed city-dwellers to gawp at tailless cats, planes landing on beaches and eccentric blokes professing themselves king of uninhabited islets - and we are the exhibits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 is du sure? yes, It was cornfirmed by a senior manager at the bank of scotland several years ago and when I spoke to him today, he said although he had no figures to hand it is the same now as then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styumpie Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Consider this for a moment dear detractors of Mr Hill. What if Mr Hill is indeed right about Shetland’s legal status (or lack of it) within the UK? Someday soon a government in either Westminster or Edinburgh is going to realise that Shetland is being grossly over-subsided. Just think about how many hundreds of millions of taxpayer’s money have been poured into Shetland over the last 30 or 40 years.You get subsided to the tune millions for Northlink services, millions for Air Discount Scheme, millions for Scottish Distant Island Allowance (which, incidentally, was set up to compensate for the high cost of then un-subsided travel and should have been legally scrapped years ago), millions to health services, millions to fishing, millions to agriculture etc. etc.What an easy way to save all this money it would be if Shetland didn’t after all belong to the UK. If Mr Hill is right (and he just might be despite his eccentricity) then some future UK government may say “Goodbye you bunch of whining, ungrateful, subsidy spongers, and by the way how about paying back the millions you’ve wheedled out of us over all these yearsâ€. I can detect quite a bit of bitterness in this post, And I can understand why. The fact is, if the UK could manage to govern itself properly without doing its utmost at every turn to destroy itself, then a United Kingdom would be the best solution for everyone, but since the English and the Scots are so hell bent on ruining themselves, I dont think it is selfish if there comes a time when we decide to leave them to it. If we went independent, it would force us to be even more productive, which would do us the world of good for the bleak times that lie ahead. Shetland produces vastly more energy and food than it consumes, Shetland is and would continue to be an asset to the UK as a whole. The UK is a sinking ship, the next decade is going to be hard, sky high taxes, huge cuts in public spending and a currency facing ruin. http://financialadvice.co.uk/news/11/tax/10526/Forecast-of-10p-tax-rise-concerns-many-experts.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infiltrator Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Shetland produces vastly more energy and food than it consumes, Shetland is and would continue to be an asset to the UK as a whole. Shetland produces energy? are you talking about the wind farm? If you're talking about Sullom I think you'll find the energy that passes though there belongs to someone else. If you're talking tax from the oil I wasn't aware that the UK government had offered to give up their tax income from the fields around Shetland if it became independant - have they? So far all I've seen from the supporters of independence is a lot of claims and assumptions. I'd just like some hard facts and numbers - surely that's not too much to ask before radically changing the islands future for the next few hundred years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Handy Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 on da subject o independence fir shetland. we're ower peerie an in da lang term we widna be able t support wirsels. at least no t da same level as dat wir becoma accustomed to!!! i have no doubt dat we'd stick it oot, but we'd certainly no be weel aff. We maybe don't have a large population, but it is a proven fact that more Autonomy will reverse the decline,We already pay more in income tax than we recieve in "subsidy" from the UK, if we were to get the same cut from our oil as the the UK currently takes then we are looking at an income of £billions, the interest alone on one years income would keep Shetland far better than any "subsidies" recieved from th UK. Fact we subsidise the UK not the other way around as they would have you believe. Where would the interest come from which bank do you trust to invest so much money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styumpie Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Who do you think it belongs to? How much of it lies in waters that are technically ours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepshagger Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I'd just like some hard facts and numbers so would I. come on excise man how much has the UK subsidised us by? The oil in the waters around Shetland belong to Shetland under international law not british law if we were indipendant then the UK would have no choice but to hand over the oil fields. and by the way how about paying back the millions you’ve wheedled out of us over all these yearsâ€. how about we demand all the revenue from the oil and fishing in our waters that has been stolen by the UK. Where would the interest come from which bank do you trust to invest so much money plenty of banks have not had to go cap in hand begging for bail outs.and there is no reason we couldn't start our own. I know of several expat Shetlanders who hold very senior positions in major banks.I know expat Shetlanders who have risen to the very top of their chosen fields and would love to return home if only the oppertunity was here for them. As an indipendent country our immigration would increase but we would have control over who came here, and not just have to accept whatever some social worker down the road sends us.folk would get to stay here based on merit, not on how much smack they can pack up their anus before coming of the boat.now wouldn't that be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Farkoff Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Does anyone think, then, that the Falkland Islands should be handed back? Gibraltar? What about the U.S.A and Australia? Should these lands be handed back to their original owners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalist Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 hey this is my 1st post on dis site but i thot i wid join in on dis debate.... I wid really like t ken what mr hill is plannin t achieve, n y experiment on shetland, i wid understand if he was a shetlander but he isna, so y did he decide t take it upon himself t decide that shetland needs t b independant??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infiltrator Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Who do you think it belongs to? How much of it lies in waters that are technically ours? So if Shetland wouldn't get the tax revenue from the oilfields around Shetland would you still support independence? If the UK were prepared just to give up the tax revenue I think you might find Norway would then be keen to adopt it's long lost islands. What independence seems to boil down to is whether or not the islands would get control of fishing with a 200 mile limit and if we'd also get the tax revenue from oilfields around Shetland - the chance of this happening is so remote that it should only be considered a bonus when considering independence. Remember the UK went to war to keep the Falklands, I don't believe they'd happily relinquish Shetland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styumpie Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Even so, would we be better off under the prudent Norwegians? with their excellent health service, and a government which seems to apply logic and common sense to it's governance, On the other hand we have Gordon Brown, we could continue on our current bearing into the abyss that the UK is heading towards, that sounds like a great idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiiMan Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 stuart is the registered keeper although he has "exported it to forvik" Don't suppose you know who the numpty was who "donated" it to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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