33 Million of Cost/Savings Per Annum

[JustMe]

SIC----one man to do the job and six in offices dealing with the paperwork. Hopefully something the new Chief Executive will be able to explore.

[daveh]

Personally, I do not think that the 'front line' workforce can stand much in the way of cuts but, I think that there are far to many employed in offices.

 

 

That is the point I am making. You need staff to be out there on the "front line", but you don't necessarily need a good number of the "back office" staff and if SIC were to combine administrative services with Orkney, both councils can make substantial staff savings; a big incentive for them.

 

With our chief exec currently on loan from Orkney, he is an ideal person to push such changes through.

[fusion]

maybe we could share hears of departments ans conveniours? thats like haveing them half price

[Ironwithin]

Close more schools and cut down on the care budget, every thicko I met seems to be a "carer" seems to ge good money.

[Colin]

That is the point I am making. You need staff to be out there on the "front line", but you don't necessarily need a good number of the "back office" staff and if SIC were to combine administrative services with Orkney, both councils can make substantial staff savings; a big incentive for them.

 

With our chief exec currently on loan from Orkney, he is an ideal person to push such changes through.

 

A non starter I think..

 

Orkney Islands Council already employ considerably fewer 'back office' staff than we do. Can't see them agreeing to losing some of the people they already have AND it would mean that we would have to lose MORE than is necessary in order to maintain the status quo.

 

Another 'danger' is that the SIC might see this as the first step towards a consolidated authority that covered the whole of N. Scotland. Would WE want that?

 

As far as I know, OIC have recalled their Chief Exec.

[shetlandpeat]

There are ways to share services, insurance costs are one. There are agreements all over the country between authorities, they seem to have the foresight to see some benefit.

The staff issue is always the big one.

[Urabug]

Some interesting points of view, but I suspect that the “councils†throughout the UK will come in for major change in the next few years.

 

We have already seen changes to the Police & Fire.

 

Not all that many years ago the Post Office was like the council, with many different departments & grades of staff & look what has happened there, with the Telephone side being privatised, Post Office being subjected to major changes & what ever happened to the Post Office garage.

 

I fear the same will happen to all the various council departments with centralization, leading to many good managerial & senior posts disappearing.

 

The councils push for better “Broadband “ may well help in this centralization process as it requires good telecommunications to work successfully .

 

Watch the offices empty as we get our services controlled from somewhere out with Shetland !

[daveh]

I am retired now but worked in various industries within the private sector. Centralisation of office functions was common place in order that the companies could be cost efficient and it enabled them to remain competitive within the market place.

 

Why should councils be any different, in terms of running a tight ship, just because they are in the public sector? I know that it is probably because, as a council charging for their services locally, they have a monopoly but that is no reason to be inefficient and keep folks in jobs just to be popular with the public and to keep the unions onside. If savings can be made, they should be made.

[daveh]

We have had recent problems with a faulty electricity meter, used for our hot water and storage heaters, where our winter bill reading was well over 3 times the amount it was in the previous 3 years. The amount involved in cash terms was well over £1200 but I have now resolved the matter and the error is about to be rectified with a revised bill in our favour.

 

Although my bill was issued by Scottis Hydro, my actual dealings in the matter were with Southern Electric who are based in Southern England. This is a good example where considerable administration costs can be saved by combining administrative functions and having excellent IT functions set up. I am not suggesting that SIC should sub-contract some of its back office functions so far south but there is a definite case to be made for the SIC and Orkney council to combine many of their administrative functions with some of them based here and some based in Kirkwall. There are substantial savings to be made by going down this route and they would certainly include the bulk-buying of various supplies to take advantage of quantity discounts available.

 

As I suggested previously, there should be no "sacred cows" in this matter.

[Spinner72]

^^ That seems OK 'till you think about it a little. All staff should be employed to their full capacity, so if someone in Orkney is full time, for example, dealing with housing rent arrears, and another in Shetland does the exact same thing, you can't "combine" them and magically do two days work in one. The workload stays the same irrespective of where its done.

 

*Taken from the School Closure Thread*

 

Not living in the past at all. Orkney Islands Council already run a pretty efficient operation with roughly 1/3 fewer staff than us.

 

This one comes up fairly often, but I've not seen any breakdown by service provision. Is there something out there somewhere?

Otherwise, with Ferries, Ports and Harbours, Social Care staff and so on, it's hard to tell if it like for like numbers.

 

A good point so I have had a (very quick remember) look, the most recent comparable data I could find was from 2009, so doesn't take account of all the jobs the SIC has cut over the past year or so.

 

Orkney : 2039

Shetland : 2959

 

Doesn't compare well at first glance but if you look closer as Carlos mentioned, OIC (again this is a quick simplification) has fewer departments, most obvious difference is the lack of Ferry and Port operations, which must account for quite a lot of the extra Shetland staff, and only two care homes, which must mean many fewer staff than the eleven in Shetland!

 

There are other substantial differences but to be honest I don't think there is that much of a difference when you take in to account the level of service provided, in fact the more you examine it, Shetland may even be providing more value per employee than Orkney.

 

Now of course, this doesn't mean we can afford to carry on at this level, but highlights how times of plenty have allowed this council to expand non-statutory services much more than others could, and also reinforces what we all know which is that no amount of efficiencies can save the amount required, services have to go.

[Infiltrator]

^If I remember correctly, the 2009 Shetland figure was before 400+ new jobs were created, mostly in social care - so after the job cuts, they're back where they started..

 

When I posted the figures in 2010 on here, 18% of the Orkney working population were employed directly by the council versus 28% for Shetland (closer to 33% after the 400+ jobs in 2009/2010).

 

I think the Scottish average was about 10%.

 

Yes there are lots of reasons why the figure is much higher - but the money has to be found from somewhere.

 

So all these folk who work for the council who might be unlucky enough to find themselves out of a well paid job with an island allowance - where do they find work? move South maybe? And what about all the big wages that disappear from the local economy?

 

I've long since thought the council have created an unsustainable monster, largely to try to maintain a bouyant local economy and maintain a steady population - without the revenue from the windmills, things will get worse before it settles down again.

[piggywiggie]

Close more schools and cut down on the care budget, every thicko I met seems to be a "carer" seems to ge good money.

 

Im sorry but I find this quite appaling, every thicko seems to be a carer?

you dont need to be smart to do a job properly.

Have you ever done this job before? do you know what is involved in it? I think before you make comments like that then you should perhaps understand it. Like every job. some people can do it some people cant.

[Spinner72]

^^ Well said. I have a great deal of respect for those who can do that job.

 

I have been looking a little more into the Orkney comparison and it really is amazing just how much more the SIC provides for only an extra 1/3rd of staff.

 

As an example, the SIC run 5 x as many Care Centres and 8 x as many Leisure Centres (Orkney has 6 Swimming pools and two have Fitness Suites, only the Pickaquoy Centre is comparible to Shetland Leisure Centres.)

 

I was wrong above regaring Ferry and Port operations as OIC took over the Inter Island Ferries a few years ago, but in most cases the operations (Flotta for example) are run by outside companies.

 

Again, I'm not saying what the SIC provides is sustainable, just that the commonly touted idea that Orkney provides the same with less employees is just a myth.

 

And when you think about it, thats just common sense anyway.

 

There are plenty of people vocal, including at least one Councillor, disturbingly, about the need to cut "office staff" - yet nobody as yet has come forward with who is going to do all the work they do if they are "done away with" - it won't go away, somebody has to do it!

 

Unless, of course, you cut services completely..

[Muppet]

The leisure centre staff are empoyed by Shetland Recreational Trust, not SIC. Are they included in the SIC staff count?

 

I know it's been asked before but I fail to see why all the Trust bodies seem to be sacred cows as far as cutbacks go. The whole point of the SIC cutbacks is so that they can reduce their draw on trust reserves, but all the trust bodies seem to have a three year budget in place with no cutbacks required.

 

As I see it, every pound the Trust can save themselves is a pound the SIC doesn't need to find.

 

The way things are going, we're soon going to have more sports centres than schools!

[Ironwithin]

I heard Councillor Manson mouthing off today they should cut the island allowance, shame they are so ill informed they do not realise the money comes from central government and would thus be detrimental as there would be less spending money in Shetland and would save Shetland Islands Council nothing. But who cares as long as its a good sound bite