Gollywogs - is this guy for real?.

[Frances144]

I am shocked and deeply saddened by this.

[Colin]

Having taken te time to read the man's blog, I to am deeply saddened and shocked as well but only because so many people seem to think that a doll can be an indication of racism.

 

For goodness sake, a doll is a doll, is a doll.....

 

When I was a kid, I used to collect the paper golliwogs from Robertson's jam jars and, shock horror, exchange them for the enameled badges that were on offer.  Nothing 'racist' about it, I just collected the badges.

 

It never 'encouraged' me to think that black, yellow, green, blue or any other colour of skin was an indication that the persons within were, somehow, different or inferior to me and to this day, I do not care what colour, race or creed anyone is.  It just isn't important so, why do so many people get upset over it. 

 

In my opinion, if you accuse someone of being a racist then, you to must be a racist.  Think about it..

 

Maybe I'm just not 'PC' enough and need to be 'educated' into thinking like a lemming.

[peeriebryan]

What a pathetic, pathetic rant by an ignorant idiot.

 

End of.

I met the man in question and he is far from an 'ignorant idiot'. I think he makes his point very succinctly. Indeed, I find this statement from the blog post to be difficult to disagree with: "The gollywog is a product and symbol of a time when white people believed (really believed) they were superior and black people inferior.  Is it racist to know this fact and still sell this doll"

[klanky]

My wife had a 'black' baby doll when she was a young girl. This was in a completely white working class Yorkshire town in the 1960's, she's still got that doll now and it is sat in our spare room as I type this.

 

Some other kids had gollywogs, no-one saw them as being a parody of a black person and no-one bothered to comment on the fact that a white girl had a 'black' baby dolly. No-one cared. Remember that this was in the allegedly 'bad old days' when fowk weren't 'enlightened' regarding race issues.....

 

Fast forward to 'caring' touchy-feely piltocks trying to label anyone who doesn't toe a sterile line as a racist. We've really moved forward, haven't we?

 

Give yourselves a pat on the back, you wonderful champions of racial equality. My bowels are moved by your incredible worthiness.

[bruckbox]

Totally agree KLANKY, I'm now 65, colour has never bothered me ,worked we a lot a different religions and people from all over the world. When young collected the stickers and got the enamel badges managed to get two, saw no difference between that and Rupert bear or my old teddy, As a mater of fact still have them today just keepsakes.When the hell is folk going to grow up and see them for what they were play toys for kids.

[Davie P]

Golliwogs began as 'doll' caricatures of Black and White Minstrels - that's a historical fact. I doubt many folk would argue that Black and White Minstrels shows weren't inherently racist - a popular form of entertainment from the mid 1800s until the mid to late 1900s in which white performers would 'black up' and characterise Afro American people as lazy and stupid.

 

Just because some folk, in particular children, were not aware of this lineage and saw golliwogs merely as toys, does not negate the fact that golliwogs have entrenched historical racist connotations.

 

Likewise, just because Robertson's Jam adopted the golliwog as a trademark in the early 1900s does not rewrite the racist lineage.

[Colin]

Golliwogs began as 'doll' caricatures of Black and White Minstrels - that's a historical fact. I doubt many folk would argue that Black and White Minstrels shows weren't inherently racist - a popular form of entertainment from the mid 1800s until the mid to late 1900s in which white performers would 'black up' and characterise Afro American people as lazy and stupid.

 

Just because some folk, in particular children, were not aware of this lineage and saw golliwogs merely as toys, does not negate the fact that golliwogs have entrenched historical racist connotations.

 

Likewise, just because Robertson's Jam adopted the golliwog as a trademark in the early 1900s does not rewrite the racist lineage.

 

 

That argument has at least one serious flaw in it.

 

"Just because some folk, in particular children, were not aware of this lineage and saw golliwogs merely as toys"

 

Why then do people insist on telling them of the lineage and that it is somehow 'wrong' to enjoy their toys.?

 

I am old enough to remember the Black & White Minstrel Show, The Colour Bar and several so called comedians who took a rise out of our coloured inhabitants. 

As for "entrenched historical racist connotations",  I would not go so far as to call any of them racist.  They were just a product of their time.

 

Some of us have moved on and, whilst we can remember the past, do not dwell on it.

[Davie P]

"Just because some folk, in particular children, were not aware of this lineage and saw golliwogs merely as toys"

 

 

Why then do people insist on telling them of the lineage and that it is somehow 'wrong' to enjoy their toys.?

 

You seem to be suggesting that people should not teach children about the lineage of golliwogs? Personally I think it is very important to educate young people in such matters.

There are plenty of other toys they can play with and I wouldn't give my kids golliwogs. I don't believe that makes me PC, a "touchy-feely piltock", a "wonderful champion of racial equality" or any of the other insults being throw around here. Likewise, I don't believe anyone who does give their kids a golliwog is automatically a racist. That said, I believe that golliwogs represent historical racism and the facts bare than out.

 

I am old enough to remember the Black & White Minstrel Show, The Colour Bar and several so called comedians who took a rise out of our coloured inhabitants. 

As for "entrenched historical racist connotations",  I would not go so far as to call any of them racist.  They were just a product of their time.

 

I'm sorry, but I find that to be a little hard to swallow. Yes, many 'comedians' were just a product of their time but to say that none of them were racist is stretching it a little.

[shetlandpeat]

There are events reported in the Shetland papers that show there has been a lack of understanding.

Kavis statement proves this. Recently there was a serious incident where someone was hurt. One of the

Prosecutions relating to this had some form of racial abuse attached to it. No doubt, the drink

Will be blamed. The attitude displayed by Kavis post is the problem. Closeted feelings come through.

[Colin]

"You seem to be suggesting that people should not teach children about the lineage of golliwogs? Personally I think it is very important to educate young people in such matters."

 

By all means teach them the lineage.  Just make it the true and proper lineage not the cherry picked version that you seem to think is correct.

 

Start here..   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwogg

 

Not saying that it is all true or, that it is the absolute last word on the subject in fact, the article claims to need citations etc.

 

It is interesting to note that they were, apparently,  banned in Germany (1934).  Let's hope that we are not taking the same route....

 

"There are plenty of other toys they can play with and I wouldn't give my kids golliwogs"

 

Would you give them toy guns, 'shoot em up' video games, games consoles etc?  If so, why so coy about giving them a doll to play with.  Has it occured to you that giving a child a coloured doll might be the start of something good?  ie a kind of 'built in' racial tolerance, or is it the fact that the doll doesn't look very 'human' imply some kind of evil caricature?

The problem isn't in the child's head unless you put it there...

 

"Yes, many 'comedians' were just a product of their time but to say that none of them were racist is stretching it a little."

 

I did not say that they were not racist (no doubt some were), I said that they "were a product of their time".

The Colour Bar was definately racist but, were the actors/dancers etc. who took part in the Black & White Minstrel show racist or were they just doing a 'job' that was perfectly acceptable at the time? On the same basis, to say that any of the comedians were racist, without any supporting facts, is also "stretching it a little".

 

What was acceptable "then" might not be acceptable "now" but, you cannot erase history.

[Ghostrider]

Recently there was a serious incident where someone was hurt. One of the

Prosecutions relating to this had some form of racial abuse attached to it. No doubt, the drink

Will be blamed.

 

Got a link to any media reports on the prosecution of this alleged incident of your's Peat. Just so as we can be clear you haven't gotten racism and bigotry confused.

[Davie P]

By all means teach them the lineage.  Just make it the true and proper lineage not the cherry picked version that you seem to think is correct.

 

Start here..   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwogg

I certainly am not cherry picking a version I think is correct. There is a wealth of historical source material to draw from. Ironically, the source you provide does back up the minstrel lineage"A product of the blackface tradition, the Golliwogg had jet black skin; bright, red lips; and wild, woolly hair. He wore red trousers, a shirt with a stiff collar, red bow-tie, and a blue jacket with tails — all traditional minstrel attire."

 

Would you give them toy guns, 'shoot em up' video games, games consoles etc?  If so, why so coy about giving them a doll to play with.  Has it occured to you that giving a child a coloured doll might be the start of something good?  ie a kind of 'built in' racial tolerance, or is it the fact that the doll doesn't look very 'human' imply some kind of evil caricature?

As a matter of fact, no I don't give my kids toy guns, 'shoot em up' video games and the like as I don't believe that mechanised violence as entertainment is a healthy thing for them. They scrap and rumble around like all kids do, but I'm not comfortable with putting toy guns in their hands and normalising warfare. However, I don't condemn those who do give their kids such toys. No doubt this will raise the ire of folk - "I played with guns as a child and it did me no harm" etc etc

 

And yes, I have considered using golliwogs as "the start of something good" and a way to discuss racism but I'm just not comfortable with them. Also, lets be clear here, a coloured doll and a golliwog are different things. I have no problem at all with coloured dolls - but a golliwog is a specific and iconic design of racist lineage.

 

 

 

The problem isn't in the child's head unless you put it there...

I certainly don't agree with putting 'problems' into kids heads but, like it or not, and it's irrelevant as to whether the child understands it or not, golliwogs represent racist iconography.

 

I used to use the words "Pakie" and "NigNog" as a child. By your logic, I should have been allowed to continue to use those words quite innocently without anyone pointing out their racist connotations. Afterall, there would be no problem in my head unless someone put it there.

 

 

I did not say that they were not racist (no doubt some were), I said that they "were a product of their time".

The Colour Bar was definately racist but, were the actors/dancers etc. who took part in the Black & White Minstrel show racist or were they just doing a 'job' that was perfectly acceptable at the time? On the same basis, to say that any of the comedians were racist, without any supporting facts, is also "stretching it a little".

It may have been poor phrasing but you did indeed say "I would not go so far as to call any of them racist."

 

And do we really need to be as pedantic as providing "supporting facts" to prove that some comedians were racist??

 

What was acceptable "then" might not be acceptable "now" but, you cannot erase history.

I am certainly not trying to "erase history" - quite the opposite. It is precisely because of an awareness of the history that makes me very uncomfortable about golliwogs. And yes, what was acceptable "then" might not be acceptable "now".... such as golliwogs.

[Kavi Ugl]

Oh SP, for goodness sake get a life and stop bullying people(me).

 

My post was perhaps a little short and blunt but to all you pc brigade I'm sorry(not) but the vast majority of ordinary people  have no problem with Golliwogs.   

 

It has nothing to do with being "ignorant" it's about keeping things in perspective.

 

Is it any wonder the world is in the state it is....... 

[shetlandpeat]

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2013/01/21/custody-for-man-accused-of-two-assaults

 

It seems, as time goes on, or folk report more, there is a steadily increasing level of hate and intollerance of beliefs, stature and creed.

 

 

What a pathetic, pathetic rant by an ignorant idiot.

 

 

Well you did mention it, now you are saying you did not mean it?

 

 

  It has nothing to do with being "ignorant" it's about keeping things in perspective.

 

 

Bully Kavi, such an emotive word from one who appears to lack the ability to see how others could be upset by a situation.

[unlinkedstudent]

Anyone reckons the sale of said golliwogs in said shop will have increased since this thread has been resurrected then?