Alistair Carmichael memo leak and inquiry: should he resign?

[George.]

To answer your question would mean they have to tell the truth, that this is more about trying to get the SNP candidate in, then it is about Carmichael's error.

 

It's this 'we'll stop at nothing to get our way' attitude that puts me off ever voting SNP, well that along with independence and double standards.

 

Carmichael will stop at nothing to get his way. An awful lot of his supporters were happy to view what he had done as not worth getting uptight about. They felt that it should be brushed under the carpet and forgotten about. Can I assume that you won't be voting Lib Dem either?

[Colin]

To answer your question would mean they have to tell the truth, that this is more about trying to get the SNP candidate in, then it is about Carmichael's error.

 

It's this 'we'll stop at nothing to get our way' attitude that puts me off ever voting SNP, well that along with independence and double standards.

[Colin]

 

The reason I ask is that we have a badly broken(?) electoral system and, not one of the SNP lot has yet expressed any concern for the 4 million, or so, disenfranchised UKIP supporters, the 1.5 million, or so, disenfranchised Scottish Labour supporters, the disenfranchised Lib Dems, Greens et al.

 

 

Carmichael and the rest of the Lib Dem "Dingalings" have yet to be heard expressing any concern for the politically disenfranchised amongst us. I don't believe I've heard the Tories, Labour or any other politico's showing any concern for the disenfranchised.  Why should the SNP be any different - or is it all their fault, regardless?

 

Rubbish!!

 

In the recent pat, the LibDems (and a number of other "minority parties" have campaigned for PR and, we recently had a referendum offering AV (NOT PR). The electorate judged that AV would only bolster the current system and rejected it. 

Could be wrong but, wasn't it the LibDems in coalition who prompted/promoted it?

[George.]

 

 

The reason I ask is that we have a badly broken(?) electoral system and, not one of the SNP lot has yet expressed any concern for the 4 million, or so, disenfranchised UKIP supporters, the 1.5 million, or so, disenfranchised Scottish Labour supporters, the disenfranchised Lib Dems, Greens et al.

 

 

Carmichael and the rest of the Lib Dem "Dingalings" have yet to be heard expressing any concern for the politically disenfranchised amongst us. I don't believe I've heard the Tories, Labour or any other politico's showing any concern for the disenfranchised.  Why should the SNP be any different - or is it all their fault, regardless?

 

Rubbish!!

 

In the recent pat, the LibDems (and a number of other "minority parties" have campaigned for PR and, we recently had a referendum offering AV (NOT PR). The electorate judged that AV would only bolster the current system and rejected it. 

Could be wrong but, wasn't it the LibDems in coalition who prompted/promoted it?

 

 

Did the Lib Dems, in coalition, possibly promote it because they were told to?

[Colin]

 

 

 

The reason I ask is that we have a badly broken(?) electoral system and, not one of the SNP lot has yet expressed any concern for the 4 million, or so, disenfranchised UKIP supporters, the 1.5 million, or so, disenfranchised Scottish Labour supporters, the disenfranchised Lib Dems, Greens et al.

 

 

Carmichael and the rest of the Lib Dem "Dingalings" have yet to be heard expressing any concern for the politically disenfranchised amongst us. I don't believe I've heard the Tories, Labour or any other politico's showing any concern for the disenfranchised.  Why should the SNP be any different - or is it all their fault, regardless?

 

Rubbish!!

 

In the recent pat, the LibDems (and a number of other "minority parties" have campaigned for PR and, we recently had a referendum offering AV (NOT PR). The electorate judged that AV would only bolster the current system and rejected it. 

Could be wrong but, wasn't it the LibDems in coalition who prompted/promoted it?

 

 

Did the Lib Dems, in coalition, possibly promote it because they were told to?

 

Oh?, so a big boy did it and ran away....

[George.]

 

 

 

 

The reason I ask is that we have a badly broken(?) electoral system and, not one of the SNP lot has yet expressed any concern for the 4 million, or so, disenfranchised UKIP supporters, the 1.5 million, or so, disenfranchised Scottish Labour supporters, the disenfranchised Lib Dems, Greens et al.

 

 

Carmichael and the rest of the Lib Dem "Dingalings" have yet to be heard expressing any concern for the politically disenfranchised amongst us. I don't believe I've heard the Tories, Labour or any other politico's showing any concern for the disenfranchised.  Why should the SNP be any different - or is it all their fault, regardless?

 

Rubbish!!

 

In the recent pat, the LibDems (and a number of other "minority parties" have campaigned for PR and, we recently had a referendum offering AV (NOT PR). The electorate judged that AV would only bolster the current system and rejected it. 

Could be wrong but, wasn't it the LibDems in coalition who prompted/promoted it?

 

 

Did the Lib Dems, in coalition, possibly promote it because they were told to?

 

Oh?, so a big boy did it and ran away....

 

 

....and the Lib Dem's are probably still deciding just what they should be seen doing about it. 

[Ghostrider]

i just find it telling that while you regularly complain about dishonesty and lack of democracy you are perfectly happy to actively brush it under the carpet when it suits you politically. and furthermore you will label calls for accountability for the actions you complain about "a witch hunt" etc.

even if it was a witch hunt (which for the most part i don't believe it is) what's your problem with that. surely by your measure that's just part of the ruthless cut and thrust of politics, how did you put it? "kill your opponent by any means possible" wasn't it? so you don't like it when you think your political opponents are playing by the same rules you are happy enough to endorse/accept when it suits you.

 

What's the point of chopping one heads off the monster when it has hundreds of the things? Calling one to account is about as much use as catching one mouse, when your house is alive with them.

 

Its the system that is rotten, and the participants either have to get with the program or fail. It is the dishonesty and lack of democracy of the system that gets my goat, and no amount of shuffling the deckchirs on the Titanic by exchanging faces is ever going to make one iota of difference to that.

 

If this was a campaign to revolutionise how we are governed by imposing greater accountability and standards I could be persuaded to back it, all it is though is a small slightly distracting side show, which regardless how it plays out will not make one iota of difference in the final analysis - business with continue as before, and as is - aka. a monumental waste of time.

 

A "witch hunt" i understand to mean, to be circumstances when someone or something is pursued to an extent that is wholly disproportionate to either what they are alleged to have done or not done, and equally disproportionate to what can be expected to be gained from maintaining that pursuit, usually motivated and driven by unrelated ulterior motives.

 

Call it what you like, but I see all aspects of that definition well in play with this one.

 

I never said I wasn't happy for opponents to play by the same rules, by all means feel free to  "kill your opponent by any means possible", fill your boots, but at the same time don't expect me let you get on with it unhindered if I disagree with you, and not try to do exactly the same thing to you and the cause you choose to support - Which is exactly what I am doing and have been doing throughout this thread.

 

 

you're right there. there is a massive inherent right wing bias in the media.

 

Your point? I was talking bout the lack of democracy, honesty and a level plying field in politics - NOT the media industry.

 

Two very different spheres.

 

Thankfully we can choose to not buy papers or swicth off t' tellay and get rid of the latter's crap, the former, we unfortunately can't escape quite so easily and "Plan B" is needed.

 

 

well there you go, all the more reason to support accountability. while of course it won't eradicate corruption and lies it would at least discourage it.

 

Ya think? Your naiveity is sweet, but scarey.

 

Just supposin this waste of money trumped up campaign were to succeed and Carmichael retired a few years earlier than he planned, the difference it would make to the 649 he left behind would be less than the passing of gas each of them made after eating lunch - A slightly unpleasant moment, then gone and forgotten.

 

Its the system and how it operates that needs taking to task and brought to heel. Those in it either have to play the system as it is played, or lose, and regrdless what face comes or goes, its a waste of time and trouble as the system trundles on unchecked.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Ghostrider

[Windwalker]

 

To answer your question would mean they have to tell the truth, that this is more about trying to get the SNP candidate in, then it is about Carmichael's error.

It's this 'we'll stop at nothing to get our way' attitude that puts me off ever voting SNP, well that along with independence and double standards.

 

 

Carmichael will stop at nothing to get his way. An awful lot of his supporters were happy to view what he had done as not worth getting uptight about. They felt that it should be brushed under the carpet and forgotten about. Can I assume that you won't be voting Lib Dem either?

No. Until something better comes along I would still vote for Carmichael before the SNP. At least he has had to come clean and will face the consequences of his actions. I would assume he will work very hard for us in future in order to rebuild trust. as for the SNP, well lied about European membership post independence, lied about cuts to health budgets, need I go on. Of course it'll be ok for the SNP to make "mistakments"

 

For the record I don't condone what Carmichael did, but I, like a lot of people put it into perspective.

[JustMe]

Nothing has yet convinced me that Alastair should apply for the Stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds and if you do not know what that means then go back to bed.  He may have made a somewhat silly comment but he is not the first and he will most certainly not me the last parliamentary candidate to do that.  As for the substantive issue of "did the First Minister express a preference for a Tory PM I frankly do not know nor care.  Suspect that if she did it was in jest.  And as for Danus Skene I think he deserves credit for fighting a good fight but in the end he lost.

[Ghostrider]

Meanwhile....

 

 

Works for me.

[Rasmie]

I think it's absolutely disgraceful that the person I voted for did not win. I' m going to scream and scweam until I'm sick!

[Colin]

"....and the Lib Dem's are probably still deciding just what they should be seen doing about it. "

 

OK, I'll ask again.....
 

"What would their position be if Skene had pulled a similar stunt and had actually won the seat ?

(ignoring the fact that he didn't tell the electorate that he was an "Old Etonian" or, that this was his third attempt to get into parliament and, that each attempt was under different "colours")"

 

"Would they then be demanding that he stepped down in the interests of their vision of "democracy"?"

 

"What would they then be saying if their vision of "democracy" was at odds with Skene's and he refused their request?"

 

It's only 3 simple questions..  Try your best

[Who Knows]

Research in the age of the Internet is much easier than it used to be. Searching on-line you can easily find the SNP policy on proportion representation. At the General Election on page 10 of their manefestio they declared their intention to vote in favour of PR being introduced for Westminister Elections and to seek the abolition of the House of Lords.

 

http://www.snp.org/sites/default/files/page/file/04_16d_snp_election_manifesto_290x280x.pdf

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-snp-would-vote-to-introduce-proportional-representation-at-westminster-nicola-sturgeon-confirms-10223302.html

 

The AV referendum vote was a Liberal Democrat concession from the Conversative as part of the 2010 collation agreement.

 

AV is not the only form of PR and proper discussion and education about the plus and minuses of alternative forms of PR is required before a future referendum on voting reform.

 

Reform of the voting system though is unlikely before 2020 so the next General Election will also be on the first past the post method, unless of course the majority Conservative party do a u-turn on the issue.

[Colin]

Research in the age of the Internet is much easier than it used to be. Searching on-line you can easily find the SNP policy on proportion representation. At the General Election on page 10 of their manefestio they declared their intention to vote in favour of PR being introduced for Westminister Elections and to seek the abolition of the House of Lords.

 

http://www.snp.org/sites/default/files/page/file/04_16d_snp_election_manifesto_290x280x.pdf

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-snp-would-vote-to-introduce-proportional-representation-at-westminster-nicola-sturgeon-confirms-10223302.html

 

The AV referendum vote was a Liberal Democrat concession from the Conversative as part of the 2010 collation agreement.

 

AV is not the only form of PR and proper discussion and education about the plus and minuses of alternative forms of PR is required before a future referendum on voting reform.

 

Reform of the voting system though is unlikely before 2020 so the next General Election will also be on the first past the post method, unless of course the majority Conservative party do a u-turn on the issue.

Dammit man, I was waiting for them to admit that they didn't know what they were talking about... 

[Capeesh]

All the dingalings SNP supporters who are baying for his blood should ask themselves quite honestly (assuming that they are capable of honest self appraisal);

 

What would their position be if Skene had pulled a similar stunt and had actually won the seat ?

(ignoring the fact that he didn't tell the electorate that he was an "Old Etonian" or, that this was his third attempt to get into parliament and, that each attempt was under different "colours")

 

Would they then be demanding that he stepped down in the interests of their vision of "democracy"?

 

What would they then be saying if their vision of "democracy" was at odds with Skene's and he refused their request?

The title of this topic is "Alistair Carmichael memo leak and inquiry: Should he resign?"

 

NOT

 

Forget Alistair Carmichael did anything wrong, lets pretend we live in a world of make believe where it was a nasty dingaling that did it, would you in this hypothetical situation call for his resignation?

 

The answer to your question is NOT QUITE

 

I've voted for three different parties in my lifetime and various different candidates if any of them won my vote using the dirty tactics Alistair Carmichael used I would:

 

Expect them to resign.

 

If they refused to do this I would expect them to be expelled from their party.

 

In essence I think all sleazy politicians should be sacked by their bosses, that's us the electorate.

In the event of their wrongdoing coming out between elections and them refusing to step down they should be recalled and forced to hold a by-election to let their constituents decide.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Capeesh