Alistair Carmichael memo leak and inquiry: should he resign?

[Roachmill]

^He even apologised for taking up so much time... slowly... but Mr Dunlop isn't that much quicker to be fair. They must get paid by the hour.

[brian.smith]

they are speaking slowly for the court reporter and judges

[hjasga]

Is it time for a new poll predicting the outcome then?

 

I'm going with acquittal, but I suspect the whole thing will have seriously impacted on Tavish's election campaign. 

[hjasga]

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/11714-judges-to-decide-mp-s-fate-after-evidence-concludes

 

Having reflected on that article, Dunlop's case for the defence seems very inconsistent. He wants us to believe that Carmichael's comments were both "something blurted out on a television interview" and a calculated political move "to keep the focus on what he thought was the politically explosive story contained within the memo".

 

No indication as yet on the expected timeline for the judges' deliberations. 

[Capeesh]

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/11698-carmichael-i-thought-i-could-have-truthfully-said-i-didn-t-leak-it

 

An interesting exchange!

 

Mitchell QC said: “Let’s put it bluntly, Mr Carmichael, you intended to lie to the inquiry.”

Carmichael replied: “The inquiry has to find evidence. It was my intention that I would wait to see what I was asked.”

Mitchell QC said: “It was your failure to tell the whole truth that led to it to have to take so long. If you and Mr Roddin had said early on, there wouldn’t have been any need.”

Carmichael said: “Indeed, had we confessed. But there was an inquiry underway and it was for them to find the evidence.”

WOW! This is very enlightening! Not only did he lie to us (the electorate) he also misled the expensive tax payer funded parliamentary leaks inquiry.

If he'd come clean and admitted his guilt we could have known BEFORE the election instead of having to wait for them to trace the dodgy memo back to his office.

He lied, smeared, used dirty tricks, abused his position as Secretary of State for Scotland and misled a government inquiry yet still we hear people trying to make out Alistair Carmichael's some kind of innocent victim.

[HeeBeeCheeBee]

He may well get cleared in the court but I wouldn't have voted for him had I know this.

[Wheelsup]

Well I am not going to vote Liberal again, I am going to vote Tory.

[George.]

Well I am not going to vote Liberal again, I am going to vote Tory.

 

You'll get a very similar sort of rubbish from the Toadies.

[Wheelsup]

The Scottish natsies are certainly no better. They did a very good impersonation of being socialists, to get rid of their main opposition.

[hjasga]

Well I am not going to vote Liberal again, I am going to vote Tory.

They're certainly the most competent opposition to the SNP at the moment. Labour are a complete mess and the Lib Dems a complete irrelevance. 

 

Your latest post suggests you're not taking things all that seriously though. 

[Ghostrider]

If he'd come clean and admitted his guilt we could have known BEFORE the election instead of having to wait for them to trace the dodgy memo back to his office.

He lied, smeared, used dirty tricks, abused his position as Secretary of State for Scotland and misled a government inquiry yet still we hear people trying to make out Alistair Carmichael's some kind of innocent victim.

 

 

Yes, perhaps we *could* have known, but *would* we have known? The Enquiry was put in place by the Cabinet Office I seem to recall, and regardless of what anyone may or may not have stated or when they stated it, it had no bearing on how long or in what direction that Enquiry went. Frankly, the Cabinet Office could and would have done with the Enquiry whatever they pleased. You could argue that with a "confession", they had no need to proceed further, but since when did that ever stop Parliament crashing ahead as they were.

 

I would go as far as say that if it was important for the outgoing Government that a whipping boy was out there, they'd have made damn sure the Enquiry was done, dusted and published before election day. The fact it wasn't either meant they were wholly indifferent to the issue, or they judged it was in their best interests to leave it hanging until all votes had been counted. Which pretty much amounts to they same thing, they were not going to be in any hurry whatsoever in getting their finger out. If you're looking for an excuse as to why the Enquiry lasted as long as it did, try looking at those in charge of it first, then only look at who told them what, when. Bluntly, if they could get whatever they allegedly got of of AC a few days after the election, they were as capable of getting it a month sooner.

 

Its also open to debate whether at the time any of this took place if AC was even an MP, let alone the SSS. Parliament is dissolved prior to an election being called, and during the period between dissolution and the results of the election being declared, when all these alleged shenanigans took place, there is a period of gray area limbo during which, technically no Parliament exists, ergo, you cannot have Government Ministers, nor even MP's in the normal definition of the term.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Ghostrider

[hjasga]

 

Its also open to debate whether at the time any of this took place if AC was even an MP, let alone the SSS. Parliament is dissolved prior to an election being called, and during the period between dissolution and the results of the election being declared, when all these alleged shenanigans took place, there is a period of gray area limbo during which, technically no Parliament exists, ergo, you cannot have Government Ministers, nor even MP's in the normal definition of the term.

 

That was one of the arguments put forward by QC Mitchell for the petitioners, as it adds to the perception he was doing this to protect his own reputation. 

 

As for the rest... it's quite a feat of mental gymnastics, I'll give you that.

[Ghostrider]

^ Which can be shot down on account that even *if* it were proven he was neither the bon fide SSS or an MP at the time the alleged happenings happened, he was a party member and candidate designate, if not a full candidate for that party, so still had split allegiance, political/personal.

 

What is undoubetedly political is this case ever getting off the ground, any other place and time it wouldn't have. Yes, maybe some AC voters are disgruntled enough with his behaviour that they feel the need to pleeps about it, and maybe some are disgruntled enough that they wish they'd not voted for him, but if it wasn't for the SNP faithful sensing a possible gain and starting a crusade over it, that's as far as this would have gone. How many of those shouting loudest/donating money to have AC ousted, actually voted for the man, and how many are SNP voters and/or voters not eligible for the O&S Constituency living in denial the Referendum came back "No" and are grasping at anything they can like a drowing man? Answer that question, and you'll have the answer whether or not this is about the level of integrity AC has shown, or about SNP fans getting something to crow about regrdless of what it is or how it was achieved This isn't an SNP voters beef, they voted for their man, this is them conning themselves, wrongly, in to believing with the incumbent "disgraced" and/or removed from the field, that they, somehow, will romp home to a massive victory.

 

They might, but the bookie wouldn't give much odds on it happening, as there's no way of knowing everyone who voted SNP in May will vote for them again, and there's no way of knowing that anyone who decided not to vote for AC or any other LD candidate would vote SNP, there are two other candidates in the field after all, plus two further options, spoiling papers, or abstention. And lastly, they cannot know how many who voted for another candidate in May wouldn't make point of voting for AC or some other LD candidate in a re-run just to cock a snoot at the whole farce that's gone on since May.

 

If this has proven one thing, its that the Scottish Justiciary system appears to run on very superficial and frivilous of levels. I used to have a grain of sympathy for them when they had to put up with Calamity's latest shennigans, but not no more, they're made each other.

 

Mental gymnastics? Aren't they the things that have earned a crust for lawyers, politicians, preachers, snake oil salesmen and God knows who else for time immemorial. So why the apparent sudden disdain so soon after quoting a lawyer?

[hjasga]

You're even less direct than QC Mitchell, but since unlike Election Court judges I am not paid to give attention, I have no intention of reading those ramblings. We will have our decision soon enough - I suspect it will be pleasing to those who have whinged about this case ever being lodged, but if it is not I hope they will recognise that there was a legitimate grievance. 

[Ghostrider]

You're even less direct than QC Mitchell,....

 

Good. Maybe I do have it to make it at new career as a lawyer then, seeing as the name of their game is baffle everyone with bullsh*t, and neither side's man was very good at that. Although blame where its due, the parmeters of this case were set by the court, and they just had to do the best they could to work with what they'd been given which was bog all, the pertinent issues and provable facts relating them never so much as saw the light of day, if we can believe the media.

 

I suspect it will be pleasing to those who have whinged about this case ever being lodged, but if it is not I hope they will recognise that there was a legitimate grievance. 

 

Nope, it won't, whatever it is. It won't undo that a immense amount of time and resources which have been wasted on a witch hunt and kangaroo court, not to mention the rift between people caused by the referendum that was just beginning to lessen, being reopened and deepened un-necessarily.

 

Of course there was a greivance, whether legitimate or not I daresay is a matter of opinion. The indy crowd still in denial that their dream was not to be, sensed some sort of chance, however slim, that they might achieve what they would perceive as some or of "victory", albeit extremely minor for their "cause", and grabbed yet one more passing straw.

 

The outcome of this case is largely immaterial, as a far more important thing has been proven beyond all doubt. That certain factions within the indy camp, if not its entireity will use anything and everything to railroad their agenda relentlessly forward regrdless of anything.

 

Had this been driven and financed this far on the strength of displeased O&S LD voters, fine, but they're conspicious by their rarity. As the saying goes "follow the money", and in this case the noise, both of which by all appearances eminate in by far the greatest quantities from the Nat's direction. Call that a "grievance" if you like, the politest I can call it is an "agenda".